[Traveler]

Saturday I bought a Pontiac intake manifold off of Facebook Marketplace. I met the seller and he seemed a decent guy. I looked the manifold over and the threads looked good. Nothing seemed wrong so I bought it. I took it home and started to clean it up and noticed a crack. I looked at it closer and it had been weld repaired and painted over. Today I asked the seller for my money back. He said he didn't have to refund my money. M question is, is it legal to sell cracked or broken auto parts and not disclose it to the buyer. Obviously he knew it was cracked by his responses to my questions. What recourse do I have? Long ago I went to small claims court about some crack heads a friend of mine bought. We won our case and the judge called the sellers action "sophisticated fraud". I have heard it is against the law to sell cracked blocks, heads, and manifolds. Parts that are useless. Any answers.

[Half-Inch Stud]

Not a popular thing to do. Thatsa why clubs matter. Can you Post the Seller's name?

[Ben M.]

Originally Posted by Traveler

M question is, is it legal to sell cracked or broken auto parts and not disclose it to the buyer.

"Buyer Beware" is the phrase most commonly uttered. The guy just has to claim no knowledge of it and unless you can prove that he was the one that did the cleanup and shabby repair attempt, you're out of luck.

Originally Posted by Traveler

What recourse do I have?

You can always take him to court but ultimately it's a "he said\she said" situation without any hard evidence that he willingly sold you something he knew was defective. And even if the law was on your side, unless the money that changed hands was significant (a grand or more) it's just going to be a small claims court. Even if you DO win that, it's still up to you to enforce the judgment and force the guy to give up the cash as he can just ignore it and you'll be out the costs and time of court in addition.

[Simple Man]

Seller will say that's the way he bought it, never used it, had no knowledge of crack, yada yada. Caveat Emptor.

[Traveler]

Originally Posted by Half-Inch Stud

Not a popular thing to do. Thatsa why clubs matter. Can you Post the Seller's name?

https://www.facebook.com/SLORides

[PAUL K]

A lot of things are against the law and it doesn't seem to matter much nowadays.

The proper way to repair a crack on an aluminum intake manifold usually is to weld it. Sometimes the welds can be ugly but functional and it's pretty easy to spend some time grinding and smoothing out the weld.

Just throwing this out there fwiw

[mgarblik]

The seller can simply say you bought it and then YOU must of cracked it. Hard to prove. I would fix it and use it or re-sell it disclosing the crack. Or throw it away.

[Traveler]

Basically it looks like some one dropped it and broke off the end of the flange. They pieced it together and threw a weld over it, ground it down and painted it to hide the repair. It's a Ram Air 068 manifold. Pretty hard to see the repair when installed..

['ol Pinion head]

Sorry to read about your experience, seller should refund your $$$ if he's local. Btw, all '70 model Pontiac V8 cast iron 4bbl intakes are "068"s, wouldn't get caught up in the RamAir hype.

[Stuart]

If he knew about the crack it was unethical, but I doubt it's illegal. Like others have said, buyer beware when buying used parts from an individual.

[Traveler]

Originally Posted by 'ol Pinion head

Sorry to read about your experience, seller should refund your $$$ if he's local. Btw, all '70 model Pontiac V8 cast iron 4bbl intakes are "068"s, wouldn't get caught up in the RamAir hype.

The guy claims to be 4th generation auto restoration. He has a shop in town. I mean give up all that time and good will over a measly $100. On well, there is the BBB and the Bureau of Auto Repair. The weld repair was really hard to spot as it was doctored to hide it. The way he interact he knew it was there. He has also done this trick before. He knew just what to say with the BS story, like it is my fault. He said it was expected for a 50 year old part. I expect normal wear and tear but a cobbled together repair and an attempt to hide it, no.

[thepontiacman]

Guaranteed on a receipt would be good.

Blocks and heads need to be magged. Intakes need to be closely inspected and magged if possible. I have seen a few cracked intakes, some on carb flange straight down.



Live and learn sometimes. Inspect carefully.

['ol Pinion head]

Originally Posted by Traveler

The guy claims to be 4th generation auto restoration. He has a shop in town. I mean give up all that time and good will over a measly $100. On well, there is the BBB and the Bureau of Auto Repair. The weld repair was really hard to spot as it was doctored to hide it. The way he interact he knew it was there. He has also done this trick before. He knew just what to say with the BS story, like it is my fault. He said it was expected for a 50 year old part. I expect normal wear and tear but a cobbled together repair and an attempt to hide it, no.

Totally understand. The repair should have been disclosed. Doesn't matter whether local, or half way across the country, the seller should offered to refund your money.

In a related vein (cracked cast iron 4bbl intakes), anyone sourcing a '68 or '69 Pontiac V8 cast iron 4 bbl intake, have mentioned it before, just need to be very observant. Many high mile (high duty cycle) "140" & "234" casting Pontiac 4 bbl intakes will have a crack on the carb mtg surface in the divider between the primarys & secondary. This tyoe of crack begins in the top of the heat crossover area & migrates upwards... eventually instant EGR. Short of vatting, & then correctly filling the exhaust crossover with molten aluminum, not much good will come of such a cracked intake manifold. Have examined a few examples that the crack was so wide, I could slide a decent sized finishing nail down into the crack. Have never ran across this issue on an '70 "068" intake, have had a BUNCH of all 3 casting numbers.

[Traveler]

Originally Posted by thepontiacman

Guaranteed on a receipt would be good.

Blocks and heads need to be magged. Intakes need to be closely inspected and magged if possible. I have seen a few cracked intakes, some on carb flange straight down.



Live and learn sometimes. Inspect carefully.

People like Frank's Pontiac, inspect, blast and mag particle their castings. It cost maybe a $100 to do this but you know you are getting a good casting. He even has to eat the bad ones. Beats driving 200 miles chasing down a craigslist ad to find junk. Worth the extra money sometimes.

[Traveler]

Originally Posted by thepontiacman

Guaranteed on a receipt would be good.

Blocks and heads need to be magged. Intakes need to be closely inspected and magged if possible. I have seen a few cracked intakes, some on carb flange straight down.



Live and learn sometimes. Inspect carefully.

The reason I was quick to buy it was the thermostat housing, no corrosion.

[400 4spd.]

I very recently went through a series of bad experiences with a 427 Chevy that was built by a "well known" builder in Nebraska. This was on a $12K engine that has had an additional $5800 poured into it (before the first start up!) to correct his f-ups.
Still waiting for his response to my request for reimbursement.

[pont406]

If you paid $100 for it, and it's installed and working with no issue, (other than you know its been repaired) i would just go on with life, and i believe FB marketplace lets you leave feedback

[Traveler]

Originally Posted by pont406

If you paid $100 for it, and it's installed and working with no issue, (other than you know its been repaired) i would just go on with life, and i believe FB marketplace lets you leave feedback

You are right I got kind of worked up. The guy is, was ,and will always be a jerk. He lost his auto restoration business 8 years ago and I can see why. It was a 4 generation business, kind of like losing the family farm

It looks like some one dropped this manifold and the port flange ear broke off right next to a rear port. It also looks like to repair it, the manifold was bolted onto a head or something flat for alignment, the two pieces butted up, ground out and welded from one side. The weld was partial penetration to keep the flat side flat. Actually it is not a bad repair considering.

I just worry about sealing or it cracking again and that rear cylinder leaking air and running lean. The break is right next to the port. I have another 4 Brl manifold I can use.

Most all Pontiac guys I have met are stand up people. They have gone out of their way to keep me happy in deals. Kudos

[sdbob]

I've had bad deals like yours. As I age I get less angry just think oh well they or he got me. I'm also into die cast construction equipment esp Manitowoc cranes. I had a deal with a guy from Erie. The crane a 16000 Lampson ,1/50 scale(1/4 scale)was in set box,new it's about 600.00. He sent me pics looked ok. I asked if it was complete, yes he said. Price was fair for used crane.Got it. 2-40 ft(about 10 inches each) boom sections were missing plus the straps for them. I called he gave the excuse he told me. The pics showed he didnt show that part of box where booms were.i trusted him.Luckily I found spares on net from honest guys. Crane assembled is about 72 " high.Dont let their angry,indifference, shady ways become yours. Move on to next day. Its sunny now.

[Chief of the 60's]

Originally Posted by Traveler

Saturday I bought a Pontiac intake manifold off of Facebook Marketplace. I met the seller and he seemed a decent guy. I looked the manifold over and the threads looked good. Nothing seemed wrong so I bought it. I took it home and started to clean it up and noticed a crack. I looked at it closer and it had been weld repaired and painted over. Today I asked the seller for my money back. He said he didn't have to refund my money. M question is, is it legal to sell cracked or broken auto parts and not disclose it to the buyer. Obviously he knew it was cracked by his responses to my questions. What recourse do I have? Long ago I went to small claims court about some crack heads a friend of mine bought. We won our case and the judge called the sellers action "sophisticated fraud". I have heard it is against the law to sell cracked blocks, heads, and manifolds. Parts that are useless. Any answers.

First off, you assume he knew about the crack.

By your own words you said, "started to clean it up and noticed a crack."

Secondly..... How's that Facebook thing working out for you?