[PurelyGTO68]

Originally Posted by 68pongto

There is someone selling a RA II block right now on the forum



http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...9&highlight=wy

Thanks for the link. I did see that ad and called on it but the poster isn't sure he is ready to sell. Must be having second thoughts I guess. The casting date on his block is 5he same as the car build date so I suppose if I am going to spend that much for a WY block, then I should get one with the appropriate date code.

I will keep looking though....

[PurelyGTO68]

Originally Posted by The Boss

There are two of them here on the forum, I believe I PM'd you (or somebody else) the links to them. They are both within a couple hours drive of me - I can assist with them if you would like.

I would go higher on the valuation of the convertible - with less than a handful of them surviving to date I would double that number at least.

Thanks Boss,
I didn't get those PMs....can you send me those links again please?
Did you ever get to cross check the EUN from our car to blocks you have come across in the past? If so, do you have an idea what casting date I should look for?

I am going to call the insurance company today and discuss raising the coverage and see what they will be agreeable to regarding the amount. Thanks for your reply and offer to help with sourcing a block.

On a side note, I sprayed some clear on the side of the cowl where some of the original green paint remained.....it looked awesome in person . Way better then it looks in books or online. I am looking forward to painting the car that color. Should look killer with black top and interior.

[Gtowolf]

Originally Posted by Baron Von Zeppelin

No problem at all Wolf.
And thanks again for sharing your Buildsheet - A W E S O M E !

If you have the BHC for your car, would be great to companion it for the archives.
And the Body Build date from trim tag.

And would REALLY like a copy of the Red-Black 4spd #11 BHC if you could email it or post it.

I'm looking though my paper work for the Red Black info shouldn't be to long of a wait TY

[The Boss]

Just found this in one of my folders - not sure if it's been posted in here before.

[Judge273]

Liking those Head prices!

[PurelyGTO68]

Originally Posted by The Boss

Just found this in one of my folders - not sure if it's been posted in here before.

That is a great bulletin. I noticed the lifters are a special part number....are they a semi solid type or is there something special about them?

Were the 9792506 blocks cast in special runs or batches? Seems like the ones I have located were cast during two date ranges....Mid March or late May. The late May blocks might have the 2506 part hand stamped where the grinding thing occurred. My car is a 05D body date so the late May block casting date isn't appropriate. Is mid March okay or did Pontiac cast these blocks in April also?

[The Boss]

There are three AS-CAST 2506 dates that we have on record as of this date.

J177, L187 and C118 - the first two dates being exclusively for the Ram Air I motors but the C118 date was used for I's as well. As for the C118 blocks in II's, they have been found as late as an invoice date of 06/24 in the Baltimore built Alpine Blue MIA body however I also have records of an E278 Ground & Stamped WY block in a Framingham built car also invoiced on 06/24. I have records of an F148 Ground & Stamped WY as well.

Where the cutoff came for the ground & stamped cars I don't quite know however both my & Ross's 05C built Pontiac Cars will have C118 As-Cast blocks in them and based on what I've seen, yours should as well.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Here is the updated breakdown for GTOwolf's car using his BHC.
Asterisks are the things I missed from the buildsheet.
Car #16 on the list

68 GTO Hardtop, Ram Air II, 4speed
Black, Black Vinyl Top, Black Bucket Seats

242378P318xxx = PMD Plant
Build Date May 29, 1968
Body build date = 05D
Invoice Date June 01, 1968
Invoice Number = 761367
Dealer / Zone 07- 631 = PMD Retail Store

SVT - Cordova Top ...................................... 94.79
347 - Ram Air II ....................................... 473.94
358 - M21 4speed ..................................... 184.31
361 - STT HD Posi ....................................... 63.19
37S - 4.33 Axle ............................................ n/c
382 - AM Radio ........................................... 61.09
392 - Rear Spkr Verbaphonic........................ 52.66 *
414 - HideAways......................................... . 52.66
444 - Rally Gauges & Tach ........................... 84.26
461 - Deluxe Wheel Discs ............................ 21.06
473 =
471 - Wood Wheel ...................................... 30.54 *
472 - Console ............................................. 52.66 *
494 - Rally Stripes ...................................... 10.53
502 - Pwr Brakes ......................................... 42.13
521 - Frt Disc Brakes ................................... 63.19
531 - SoftRay ALL ....................................... 34.76
621 - Ride & Handle....................................... 4.21
71R/72C - G77 x14 Redlines........................... n/c
754 - Frt Shoulder Belts ................................. n/c

Options Total ............................................ 1325.98


Base Price ................................................ 3101.00
Destination .................................................. ...8.75 *

TOTAL .................................................. .... 4435.73
===================================

Label Price ................................................ 4435.73

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

We've been waiting on this one for about 3 years !

This is for the Red 4speed car that PY member "weranc" bought at a Mecum 2012 auction. Formerly of the Salmon Brothers Collection
It is Car #11 on the listing

Red , Black Top , Black Interior
Ram Air II , 4 speed
Pontiac Plant
Dealer = 14 - 547 = Unknown , somewhere in Iowa (BHC state code 14)
Invoice Date = June 05, 1968
Invoice Number = 771376

SVT - Vinyl Top.....................................94.79
347 - Ram Air II..................................473.94
358 - M21 Muncie 4spd........................184.31
361 - STT HD Posi..................................63.19
37S - 4.33 Axle....................................... n/c
382 - AM Radio......................................61.09
394 - Stereo 8track Tape.......................133.76
412 - Door Edge Guards ..........................6.24
422 - Visor Mirror L&R ............................ 4.21
434 - Hood Tach.....................................63.19 (5500 Redline)
453 - Rally 2 wheels...............................84.26
475 =
471 - Wood Wheel .................................30.54
474 - Clock............................................. . n/c
486 =
482 - Rally Gauges & Clock .....................50.55
484 - Exhaust Tips .................................21.06
507 =
501 - Pwr Steer.......................................94.79
502 - Pwr Brakes.....................................42.13
504 - Tilt Steer Column............................42.13
531- SoftRay ALL.....................................34.76
564 - Pwr Seat LH....................................69.51
633 =
631 - Front Mats........................................6.85
632 - Rear Mats.........................................6.32
71R/72C - G77x14 Redlines.........................n/c
754 - Shoulder Belts.................................. n/c
==============================
Options Total........................................1567. 62

Base Price............................................3 101.00
Destination....................................... ...... 74.75
--------------------------------------------------------
TOTAL .................................................4 743.37
================================

Label Price............................................4 743.37

[The Boss]

Redline hood tach could have been an error made in a prior restoration - do we have any other examples of a 5500 RPM dash or hood tach?

[Gtowolf]

Originally Posted by The Boss

Redline hood tach could have been an error made in a prior restoration - do we have any other examples of a 5500 RPM dash or hood tach?

I have heard that about the 5500 red line, my tach has never been out off the dash and is 5200 red line anyone have a pic off the 5500 red line tach??? Or it could have been the later cars had the 5500 tach in them???

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

I don't think anyone ever posted a picture or knowledge of a 5500 In-Dash.
These 5500 Hood Tachs have seemed to pop up here and there on some round port cars.

Folklore/Rumor is they were 68 Ram Air Only.
Whether this one is genuine or repo on Red Car #11 - idunno.

Think Steve Hoog was in on an older thread about the 5500 Tachs.
Probably somewhere in the Judge section , mangled inside a thread that started out as something else probably. Might be hard to find it.

iirc - they were made for 68-69 Sprint6/OHC Tachs.
The 67 Sprint/OHC were 6500 Hood Tachs.
There have been some 66-67 In-Dash units known and seen with the 6500.
But don't think anyone has shown any In-Dash 5500 from 68-69 Sprint or otherwise, although they may exist.
6cyl tach would need some recalibrating to work on V8.


another iirc - some of the better early repo's were made with 5500 for V8.

[PurelyGTO68]

I spoke to a fellow deuce owner today and it didn't sound like he knew about the roll call so I pointed him to this forum. Hopefully he will find time to register and provide his BHC for the registry. He said he had his car for over 20 years and completed a full restoration last year. His car has a hood tach and I asked about the redline. He thought it was 5200 but he wasn't sure. Hopefully he can post here and add to the knowledge base on this issue.

He also spoke of another convertible RAII project that he recently became aware of so there may be more folks joining the party.

[Gtowolf]

Originally Posted by PurelyGTO68

I spoke to a fellow deuce owner today and it didn't sound like he knew about the roll call so I pointed him to this forum. Hopefully he will find time to register and provide his BHC for the registry. He said he had his car for over 20 years and completed a full restoration last year. His car has a hood tach and I asked about the redline. He thought it was 5200 but he wasn't sure. Hopefully he can post here and add to the knowledge base on this issue.

He also spoke of another convertible RAII project that he recently became aware of so there may be more folks joining the party.

This is going sound stupid lol my tach red lines at 5000 just like my 66 4 speed Bonneville tach did so maybe the later II cars had a 5500 rpm tach..????

[Gtowolf]

Originally Posted by Gtowolf

I have heard that about the 5500 red line, my tach has never been out off the dash and is 5200 red line anyone have a pic off the 5500 red line tach??? Or it could have been the later cars had the 5500 tach in them???

I am wrong I just went and looked that the darn thing it has a 5000 red line

[Gtowolf]

The rim code from my spare is ...there is a number 25 by the valve steam and a HG next to that I do believe it's original to the car because it still has the red line tire on the rim that was there in 76 when I bought the car, as it came with red lines and hub caps from factory. yes no maybe??

[Gtowolf]

Originally Posted by PurelyGTO68

Glad to be on the list. The RAII Bird Roll Call thread is some great reading....(this one isn't too bad either... )

I will tell what I know about the history of our car. Perhaps I'll get lucky and someone on here will recognize the car from it's earlier life before we bought the car.

My brother purchased this car as a project in 1988 in Tucson Arizona. At the time I owned a '70 RAIII and my uncle had a '73 LeMans Sport Coupe 400 manual trans. My brother wanted in on the action, so he found this car and felt he could fix it up. The person we bought the car from had it for a little bit over a year and purchased it as a project with the same intentions. The person who owned it prior to that had it for 11 years and raced the car at the local tracks (according to the person we purchased the car from...)

At the time we found the car it had been repainted a color similar to Mayfair Maize. The GTO quarter fender decals were installed as well as Ram Air decals on the hood. At the time, we didn't know that 1968 models didn't come with hood decals.....we were mostly familiar with 1969 and 1970 models so as far as we knew, all GTOs were Ram Air. Pretty much every GTO that we'd ever seen had Ram Air decals so we didn't think anything of it when the '68 had them as well.

The car was sitting in a field. The convertible top was ripped and torn and the interior was completely shot. The original engine was gone and replaced with a 1967 RA or HO engine from a Firebird. All the other RA stuff was there....intake, carb, air cleaner pan, hood baffle, open scoops, M21 trans and 4.33 4 pinion posi rear end etc. So, we plunked down $800 and trailered the car home. My uncle and I removed the body from the frame and we completely restored the chassis and rebuilt the entire drive train, brakes, fuel lines etc. We then put the body back on the frame and prepared the car for new floor pans. Around that time, my brother had an occupation change so work stopped on the car until more funds were available.

Weeks turned to Months and Months turned to Years. By this time the 3 of us had married and started families. My uncle and I moved away from Tucson, so my brother simply kept the car in storage until he was ready to resume the project. Around 2004, my he met a fellow at a local car show that had a restoration business and they came to an agreement to have him finish the car. This shop proceeded to disassemble the car and empty my brother's wallet. To be fair, it's likely that my brother sorta gave up on the car as well.

Meanwhile, my passion for classic American cars lives on. I've completed a few projects of my own. My most recent project was a frame off restoration of my father-in-law's '1961 Bel Air Bubble Top. It's a one owner car and my wife and kids assisted with the restoration. We had a wonderful time building that car and giving it back to our dad to enjoy once again.

We attended a car show in Tucson a couple of months ago where the '61 won Best of Show. Our dad was very proud. As luck would have it, my brother stopped by and we got to talking. By this time I had assumed that he sold the car and didn't have it any more but to my surprise he said that he would be interested in having me finish his car for him. Of course I said "You still have that car!".....and "hell yeah, let's go get it!".

The following day we went to the address of the shop to discover the owner had lost his lease and the cars had been moved somewhere else. We had no idea where. My brother remembers talking to the guy about 18 months earlier and he said he was relocating soon but he wasn't sure where. This baffles me because I can't understand how anyone could leave there car with a shop so long and not know details about the repair/restoration progress or check up on the car on a regular basis. Over the next several days it became fairly obvious that my brother had given up on the car and was ready to forget about it and move on.

I was less likely to accept that fate. My wife was even more animated than I and we tracked down some leads and found the car. The body and chassis was across the street and the off parts (doors, fenders, bumpers, hood etc) were at another location about 5 miles away. Apparently the owner of the shop was in an accident and ended up in the hospital for 8 or 9 months. When he defaulted on his lease, the landlord used a forklift and moved all the cars and parts out into the street. A good Samaritan neighbor took pity on him and moved the cars into his yard while all the smaller parts went to another shop nearby.

With my brother's permission, my wife and I made arrangements to recover the vehicle and whatever parts we could. All the parts were left out in the elements. The new floors weren't primed so they had a nice coat of surface runs. The chassis was in pretty bad shape as well. It was a fairly sad scene. Luckily I had a fairly good memory of what parts to look for and was able to spot and collect most everything. It was a bit of a scavenger hunt. The air cleaner pan was found in the front seat of a 67 Mustang. The hood and doors were buried behind other hoods against a fence. The bumpers were in the back of an old truck. It was quite a scene.

I loaded everything up in my trailer and brought it back home. My brother saw the parts and said he was done with the car and asked if I would be interested in buying it. We agreed on a price and then he would only accept half of that amount. He said he would like me to have the car since my wife and I did all the legwork to track it down. He can see that my wife and I have a passion for these sorts of things and he just doesn't share the same level of interest that we have in cars. I guess that's okay, not everyone is a car person.

So here we are. I am nearly finished with my '55 Bel Air so I hope to start this project around Dec/Jan ish. I've been taking inventory and doing lots of research. I don't think it's likely that I'll find a WY block so I'll probably use a RAIV block that is available. I have the RAII heads along with the intake and carb so that stuff is in hand already. I have a short list of items remaining and then I'll start planning the project. The remaining items are common '68 parts so they should be obtainable. The local salvage yard has two '68 convertibles for parts so that will be helpful.

I have a new one piece floor already. I'll probably put that in around November or so. That will allow me to put the body on a rotisserie so I can get it ready for paint. The rockers, quarters, front fenders, doors, cowl, trunk etc is totally rust free so that is going to be pretty nice. The last car I restored was a total rust bucket so it will be nice to have OE sheet metal for a change.

Here are some pics of how the car looked when we found it and when I got it back home. I have the car insured through Hagerty but I think I should up the value. What do you guys think a reasonable value would be on a '68 convertible RAII project car? Is $15-20k out of the question as it sits now? This includes the 4 bolt block and RAII heads, carb, related parts etc....

Haggerty for 60,000 on my GTO it was 65,000 the year before I have to renew next month I think I will leave it at 60,000..is that a fair amount for a number 2 car ??

[PurelyGTO68]

Originally Posted by Gtowolf

Haggerty for 60,000 on my GTO it was 65,000 the year before I have to renew next month I think I will leave it at 60,000..is that a fair amount for a number 2 car ??

I have always placed insurance amounts at replacement costs plus a little extra. I suppose that also works for classic cars provided suitable examples are available for sale at any given time. As far as I know, there aren't very many (if any) RAII GTOs on the market so replacement value is a bit of a guessing game. A public or private auction would likely set the market value but even that could be heavily dependent on how many potential buyers are informed that a car is available. Does anyone know what the last RAII sold for at auction and what was the winning bid?

Hagerty told me that a condition 4 convertible was $55k. I decided $20 k would be a reasonable amount at this time so that is what we agreed to use...for now.

[olgoat1]

Recently purchased 1968 RA II GTO from Wisconsin. This car went to Seltzer Pontiac on north side of Chicago, I purchased car from 2nd owner who said the previous owner would not tell him much about the car, just that he was the original owner and it had the original motor, but the motor in it was a early 68 WT motor, and the trans was an M20. Obviously this is hard to understand.
The man I purchased it from got it in 2005, ran the PHS and it was a RA II Verdoro Green, black vinyl roof, black interior, 4spd, 4.33, PS, PDB, AM radio but no antenna?, Rally IIs, console, remote mirror, ride and handling. Build date was 5/31/68. Body date 5D.

I have the correct WY motor and RA II stock heads and correct M21 and checked the axle code and it is ZL.

Would appreciate any information about the early history about this car if anyone from the Chicago area knows anything about it.

[johnta1]

Welcome, olgoat1 !!!



Congrats on the new RA II.