#21  
Old 09-07-2020, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Dragncar View Post
You can not tell me if I just bolted my High Ports on my old 455 I would not make 600 HP just the way it sits.
Would this be the block with the hole in the side that made you miss racing this season?


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Originally Posted by PAUL K View Post
A few combinations ago Steve C designed an excellent true street stock block 455 with Edelbrock heads that made right around 600 HP. He also was kind enough to share the results from a bunch of different manifolds he tested. It is easy to yap on the Internet about making 600 hp. and a lot more difficult to actually complete the project and achieve the number..
This was a great build. If you look it up you will see how easy it is to make or miss making 600 HP.... But easy from the couch.


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Originally Posted by PAUL K View Post
Funny I came across a post today from 2008 with some guy yapping about Hi-ports that have yet to see a splash of combustible mixture.... Again a lot easier said than done.
Funny how you feel everything is about you, or are you the only guy yapping about a new build all the time?

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Originally Posted by Dragncar View Post
You know, that was the start of 4 mills in a row closing I worked at.
One thing, I am persistent and have a tenacity about racing.
A man with your qualifications should be able to find a job sweeping the floor anywhere. Not sure about "tenacity" you've been trying to build this engine on here for two decades.

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  #22  
Old 09-07-2020, 11:17 AM
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Small rant here, but people today seem to criticize other people/things when said person has never done it.
What happened to the days of if you don't have anything nice to say, then don't say anything at all?

  #23  
Old 09-07-2020, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by ponjohn View Post
I believe it was a swap over from a stock block.



I posted this simply because it made over 600hp on pump gas with untouched heads.
Gotcha. Would be neat to see them run the same engine with different bore/stroke combos and see if it gains any power as a 505 or 535. Of course, it is very easy to go on the internet and spend someone else's time and money!

  #24  
Old 09-07-2020, 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted by slowbird View Post
Small rant here, but people today seem to criticize other people/things when said person has never done it.
What happened to the days of if you don't have anything nice to say, then don't say anything at all?
It was not that long ago PY operated like that. A lot more participants and good knowledge shared. Over the last couple of years two guys single handedly drove away a lot of good folks that participated on the Website. One of these two agitators was suspended but the other is still here allowed two "drag" down any thread he feels like, spew BS as he pleases and attack individuals or individuals achievements.

Now many participants have given up not wanting their opinions or projects mocked by certain individuals and make fun of the antagonist on FB. I attached a few examples I stumbled across on Facebook... They seem to "get it".
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  #25  
Old 09-07-2020, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by i82much View Post
Gotcha.. Of course, it is very easy to go on the internet and spend someone else's time and money!

LOL! It's an interesting build and shows what can be done with a pair of "off the shelf" cylinder heads.

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  #26  
Old 09-07-2020, 12:10 PM
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What do you never built it. I just built it right now on my computer.

Stan
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  #27  
Old 09-07-2020, 03:12 PM
Steve C. Steve C. is offline
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"Would be neat to see them run the same engine with different bore/stroke combos and see if it gains any power as a 505"


Of interest. In 2005 there were tall tails of a 505 combination with a set of unported HP heads that made 775 HP. The secret squirrel came out from under the rock and hinted it was around 276 at .050" intake duration. But no compression ratio was reported.


.

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'70 TA / 505 cid / same engine but revised ( previous best 10.63 at 127.05 )
Old information here:
http://www.hotrod.com/articles/0712p...tiac-trans-am/

Sponsor of the world's fastest Pontiac powered Ford Fairmont (engine)
5.14 at 140 mph (1/8 mile) , true 10.5 tire, stock type suspension
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDoJnIP3HgE
  #28  
Old 09-07-2020, 03:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve C. View Post
"Would be neat to see them run the same engine with different bore/stroke combos and see if it gains any power as a 505"


Of interest. In 2005 there were tall tails of a 505 combination with a set of unported HP heads that made 775 HP. The secret squirrel came out from under the rock and hinted it was around 276 at .050" intake duration. But no compression ratio was reported.


.
i am still in shock at what my plain old e-head old faithful 505 will do. 775 hp sounds scary.

it’s like realizing you have reached the age where three girlfriends sounds like two too many. couldn’t keep up if you tried.

getting old is a bish!

  #29  
Old 09-07-2020, 03:56 PM
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That 276 degrees was a sold roller cam and 0.681" gross lift, presuming it was 1.5 ratio. The Old Faithful is like running a XE 242 solid roller cam.


.

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'70 TA / 505 cid / same engine but revised ( previous best 10.63 at 127.05 )
Old information here:
http://www.hotrod.com/articles/0712p...tiac-trans-am/

Sponsor of the world's fastest Pontiac powered Ford Fairmont (engine)
5.14 at 140 mph (1/8 mile) , true 10.5 tire, stock type suspension
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDoJnIP3HgE
  #30  
Old 09-07-2020, 04:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Steve C. View Post
That 276 degrees was a sold roller cam and 0.681" gross lift, presuming it was 1.5 ratio. The Old Faithful is like running a XE 242 solid roller cam.


.
has anybody made it to 50k miles on a Pontiac solid roller without changing valve springs? I wonder if maybe a comp magnum lobe with 1.5 rockers might live a long life. Maybe an engine like this could live a long life at 600 hp with a small solid roller. I tried and failed, went hyd roller.

  #31  
Old 09-07-2020, 05:45 PM
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HWYSTR455 comes to mind right away, he has posted his good success with many thousands of miles... I always have my old man brain fade trying to remember.. but near 25,000 miles. Or more. And with long road trips.

It is a given to keep track of the spring pressure and change them as necessary. They are a routine maint item. I never trust catalog specs, I work with the cam engineer and get a minimum spring pressure needed for my specific application. We check the springs new with a Rimac machine before installing them. This as a base line. Then again after installation with a on the head type spring tester that will typically read a different amount than the bench tester, that's not unusual. Also a must, check them again after first run in after they lose some initial pressure. Then check them as a routine with the on the head tester, maybe once or twice a year. I've had cryogenic treated valve springs go many years. BUT.... and a BIG but, my car is not a daily driver and do not expect them to go 50,000 miles ! It's a fair weather driver, typically on week ends.... out 100 miles round trip for a hamburger


.

__________________
'70 TA / 505 cid / same engine but revised ( previous best 10.63 at 127.05 )
Old information here:
http://www.hotrod.com/articles/0712p...tiac-trans-am/

Sponsor of the world's fastest Pontiac powered Ford Fairmont (engine)
5.14 at 140 mph (1/8 mile) , true 10.5 tire, stock type suspension
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDoJnIP3HgE

Last edited by Steve C.; 09-07-2020 at 05:58 PM.
  #32  
Old 09-07-2020, 06:27 PM
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Originally Posted by i82much View Post
has anybody made it to 50k miles on a Pontiac solid roller without changing valve springs? I wonder if maybe a comp magnum lobe with 1.5 rockers might live a long life. Maybe an engine like this could live a long life at 600 hp with a small solid roller. I tried and failed, went hyd roller.
Yes! A member here was selling a Crower SR and had a bunch of miles on it.... I want to say 80k but it was definitely more than 50k.

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  #33  
Old 09-07-2020, 06:40 PM
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good info. i remember pontiac dude did well with a hydraulic roller, beehive springs and lightweight retainers. this engine peaked at 5900 so seems like a hydraulic roller or solid with reasonable spring pressure could produce these numbers.

  #34  
Old 09-07-2020, 09:01 PM
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What kills the springs....total lift, ramp speed, duration, rpm or all of the above?

  #35  
Old 09-07-2020, 09:13 PM
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Ramp speed and rpm are the big players

  #36  
Old 09-07-2020, 09:59 PM
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And sooner or later the associated topic of roller lifter failure pops up. My .02 regarding street use.... inadequate oiling, excessive spring pressures and the hammering effect associated with valve lash play a significant part in the failure of the roller, needle bearings and axle. BUT very important, the lack of adequate valve spring pressure to control the valves is a potential KILLER.

Posted by mgarblik in a related thread...

"Adequate seat spring pressure is an important factor in needle bearing and roller life too. I like to start with about 20% more seat pressure than the camshaft manufacturer recommends as a general rule. The springs will lose 10-12% quickly during break-in. That leaves 8-10% safety factor once on the road or off the dyno."

.

__________________
'70 TA / 505 cid / same engine but revised ( previous best 10.63 at 127.05 )
Old information here:
http://www.hotrod.com/articles/0712p...tiac-trans-am/

Sponsor of the world's fastest Pontiac powered Ford Fairmont (engine)
5.14 at 140 mph (1/8 mile) , true 10.5 tire, stock type suspension
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDoJnIP3HgE

Last edited by Steve C.; 09-07-2020 at 10:12 PM.
  #37  
Old 09-08-2020, 05:23 PM
Dragncar Dragncar is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PAUL K View Post
Would this be the block with the hole in the side that made you miss racing this season?




This was a great build. If you look it up you will see how easy it is to make or miss making 600 HP.... But easy from the couch.




Funny how you feel everything is about you, or are you the only guy yapping about a new build all the time?



A man with your qualifications should be able to find a job sweeping the floor anywhere. Not sure about "tenacity" you've been trying to build this engine on here for two decades.
Why you get away with straight up lies I don't know. I have told you I will give you 1000$ for proof I have blown it up, yet you shrivel. Just find someone from my track to back it up ? But they will tell you just the opposite.
You straight up lie about other porters, and get away with it. You have to lie about them to try and get whatever cred you think you deserve in your head, sad.
You are nothing without spray. Its your go to move.
No one in their right mind thinks it is difficult in any way to get 600HP with as cast High Ports. So I say as much, you don't like it, don't care.
'tenacity" was about actually racing. You know, the pic with all the trophies on the single 455 engine, that one.

  #38  
Old 09-08-2020, 05:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PAUL K View Post
It was not that long ago PY operated like that. A lot more participants and good knowledge shared. Over the last couple of years two guys single handedly drove away a lot of good folks that participated on the Website. One of these two agitators was suspended but the other is still here allowed two "drag" down any thread he feels like, spew BS as he pleases and attack individuals or individuals achievements.

Now many participants have given up not wanting their opinions or projects mocked by certain individuals and make fun of the antagonist on FB. I attached a few examples I stumbled across on Facebook... They seem to "get it".
Hey, cool. I made facebook even though I am not on it !!!
Joker ! I will be the Joker, since you can not be Batman, go ahead and give being Robin a try.
But tell them guys "dragncar" is spelled with a capital D.

You know, I referenced actual documented as cast High Port builds done by KRE. And you have a problem with it ?
Who is trying to make trouble here ?
I know, the guy lying about blown engines, other head porters and what other members do to make a living. Just look in the mirror.
Moderators, it can all be proven.

  #39  
Old 09-08-2020, 06:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve C. View Post
And sooner or later the associated topic of roller lifter failure pops up. My .02 regarding street use.... inadequate oiling, excessive spring pressures and the hammering effect associated with valve lash play a significant part in the failure of the roller, needle bearings and axle. BUT very important, the lack of adequate valve spring pressure to control the valves is a potential KILLER.

Posted by mgarblik in a related thread...

"Adequate seat spring pressure is an important factor in needle bearing and roller life too. I like to start with about 20% more seat pressure than the camshaft manufacturer recommends as a general rule. The springs will lose 10-12% quickly during break-in. That leaves 8-10% safety factor once on the road or off the dyno."

.
So what is the appropriate seat pressure for a street SR? The cam in my race motor has a street intake lobe and a street type exhaust lobe with a 0.016"/0.018" hot lash. I set the new springs up with 240# seat pressure for race knowing they would lose some pressure after run in. I intend on putting that motor as is in my street '68 Bird and I was wondering how much to reduce the seat pressure, 180-200#?

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  #40  
Old 09-08-2020, 09:31 PM
Steve C. Steve C. is offline
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As mentioned I talk with the cam engineer, never trust catalog specs knowing every combo will be different.

Example, the first solid roller cam in my current 505 was a custom from Crower with 292/298 @.020, 260-266 @.050 , about 180/184 @.200 and .4250 lobe lift. I spent time on the phone with Dave Crower about the combination, if raced and banged on he wanted 240 seat pressure and up towards 600 open. If limited street use only, no racing, and at a lower 6000 peak rpm then for the most part he said ok to 220-225 seat pressure. So it depends so much how the car is driven and the rpm range. I used PAC 1243 springs rated 240 at 1.900". My installed height is 1.900"-1.910".

Then later I changed to a UltraDyne MSP solid roller that was ordered with 5 degrees less intake duration but with .4300" lobe lift.. John Partridge at Bullet Racing said about the same, 240 lbs seat pressure.

Fast forward to recently, I made another cam change in order to reduce some intensity since it's street only. I worked with Tim at Bullet Racing and he suggested one of Harold Brookshire's favorite solid roller cams. His 288R designed in 1980. It has the same 255 degrees at .050" , and 176 at .200" with .4176" lobe lift. Tim said that years ago they would run it with a Pontiac valvetrain mass as low as 180 lbs seat pressure, but he suggested as low as 190 for me. Knowing that it will loose pressure with run in I'm using Isky 9315-plus springs rated 220 at 1.900". We will dyno it in a few weeks. I would rather have more pressure than less.


.

__________________
'70 TA / 505 cid / same engine but revised ( previous best 10.63 at 127.05 )
Old information here:
http://www.hotrod.com/articles/0712p...tiac-trans-am/

Sponsor of the world's fastest Pontiac powered Ford Fairmont (engine)
5.14 at 140 mph (1/8 mile) , true 10.5 tire, stock type suspension
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDoJnIP3HgE
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