[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by tom s

I was told the lifters before the Shavers were Johnsons?Tom

Maybe, I'm not sure. I was told by others they are an old set of Morels but no way to verify that. There are no markings on them and I don't have the original box anymore. Those (the short set with the enclosed wheel) came out of a 455 I built for dad about 20 years ago? He ran that engine for about 5 years, thousands of street miles and lots of racing, up until it snapped an oil pump shaft. So we saved the cam and those lifters, they were always as quiet as a mouse.

Maybe they are Johnsons but I have no way of knowing. I do know for certain they are from Comp and came with the custom Comp hydraulic roller cam that was purchased through Kauffman.

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by ignaro

Butler strongly recommended Johnson's hydraulic roller lifters. I'm still waiting on heads (COVID-delay) but you could look into those

Sent from my SM-G988U1 using Tapatalk

That's the only lifter that Paul C recommends and prefers to use himself. But they are hit and miss as to availability.

[AG]

I built a 461 in 2007 and used CC HR lifters and the OF cam no issues at all, still running great. Got the revised version HR lifters in 2017 for my brother's 464 and they were NG, neither were the 2019 replacements. Supposed to be better with the revised oil band position.

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by AG

I built a 461 in 2007 and used CC HR lifters and the OF cam no issues at all, still running great. Got the revised version HR lifters in 2017 for my brother's 464 and they were NG, neither were the 2019 replacements. Supposed to be better with the revised oil band position.

Those taller lifters in the picture I posted are the revised Comps with the higher oil band I bought from Paul K on the forums here. Maybe been a year or year and a half, I think it was. Those have been in dad's engine since that time on top of a custom Lunati hydraulic roller and have been perfectly quiet. Logged a few thousand miles on them already.

[AG]

Originally Posted by Formulajones

Those taller lifters in the picture I posted are the revised Comps with the higher oil band I bought from Paul K on the forums here. Maybe been a year or year and a half, I think it was. Those have been in dad's engine since that time on top of a custom Lunati hydraulic roller and have been perfectly quiet. Logged a few thousand miles on them already.

Yes, you already made that clear to me on another thread, what is your point?

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by AG

Yes, you already made that clear to me on another thread, what is your point?

You keep bringing it up

[AG]

Apparently the truth bothers you.

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by AG

Apparently the truth bothers you.

I think that works both ways You can't stand it that some of us have several engines in service with no issues??

All kidding aside, every failure deserves a good success story to keep a nice balance on the forums

[Sirrotica]

Funny how LS engines can run hydraulic roller lifters for 200,000 and more miles trouble free.............

204/213 duration at .050 @ 520 lift stock GM cam in my 05 GTO.

My LS2 has 141,000 miles on it since new, never ticked once. It will run 6 grand with a stock GM valvetrain.

It seems no one gives a damn about making quality parts for our tiny market, and we just get overpriced crap. And we're supposed to be grateful they make crap for us to buy?

If someone designed a rev kit for the hydraulic roller lifters you could remove some of the spring from the heads, helping relieve some stress on pushrods and the hydraulic portion of the lifter. I know it's a small market, but we've been able to get parts a lot more technical than a rev kit made for Stratostreak engines in the past.

I have a Crower solid roller for a Pontiac from back in the 60s, fairly radical for the time, with a rev kit, never had an ounce of trouble with it, and ran it in 3 different engines. It would run 6500 RPM, but with stock cast rods I didn't take it there too many times.........

Just thinking out loud is all.

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by Sirrotica

Funny how LS engines can run hydraulic roller lifters for 200,000 and more miles trouble free.............

204/213 duration at .050 @ 520 lift stock GM cam in my 05 GTO.

My LS2 has 141,000 miles on it since new, never ticked once. It will run 6 grand with a stock GM valvetrain.

It seems no one gives a damn about making quality parts for our tiny market, and we just get overpriced crap. And we're supposed to be grateful they make crap for us to buy?

If someone designed a rev kit for the hydraulic roller lifters you could remove some of the spring from the heads, helping relieve some stress on pushrods and the hydraulic portion of the lifter. I know it's a small market, but we've been able to get parts a lot more technical than a rev kit made for Stratostreak engines in the past.

I have a Crower solid roller for a Pontiac from back in the 60s, fairly radical for the time, with a rev kit, never had an ounce of trouble with it, and ran it in 3 different engines. It would run 6500 RPM, but with stock cast rods I didn't take it there too many times.........

Just thinking out loud is all.

A lot of things contribute to that, I hear what you're saying. The LS engines are fantastic little pieces. The rollers live for a lot of reasons.

The LS1's I messed with for several years were lucky to have 100 lbs. seat pressure on those beehive springs. They weren't much. I think the lazy stock cam profiles helped and didn't require much spring to start with. The valvetrain is pretty light on these engines too, with some of them, like the LS6 having sodium filled valves.

Even with that said, I've done cam swaps on 100k mile engines, with a custom cam, more aggressive lobes, and upgraded the valve springs and push rods to go with it, and left the original lifters in place, then proceed to log another 80k miles on the engine with a 6700 rpm rev limit set, without a hiccup, go figure.

My sons 5.0 has it's original long block (and roller lifters) now with 253,000 miles on it. Whisper quiet. Probably has 80 lbs. springs in it lol.

The rev kit is an interesting thought. I've always liked to keep the valve train light on my engines with titanium retainers and lighter valves to help with valve train stability without spending a bunch of money.

[David Jones]

Crower Hippo solid rollers on my hyd roller cam for a few years.

[i82much]

is anybody making a bushing style hydraulic roller lifter for pontiacs these days?

[tom s]

Isky has bushed Hyd rollers made by Johnson but they don't show a Pontiac.The bushing would not have saved that lifter IMO.Tom

[FrankieT/A]

Originally Posted by Formulajones

A lot of things contribute to that, I hear what you're saying. The LS engines are fantastic little pieces. The rollers live for a lot of reasons.

The LS1's I messed with for several years were lucky to have 100 lbs. seat pressure on those beehive springs. They weren't much. I think the lazy stock cam profiles helped and didn't require much spring to start with. The valvetrain is pretty light on these engines too, with some of them, like the LS6 having sodium filled valves.

Even with that said, I've done cam swaps on 100k mile engines, with a custom cam, more aggressive lobes, and upgraded the valve springs and push rods to go with it, and left the original lifters in place, then proceed to log another 80k miles on the engine with a 6700 rpm rev limit set, without a hiccup, go figure.

My sons 5.0 has it's original long block (and roller lifters) now with 253,000 miles on it. Whisper quiet. Probably has 80 lbs. springs in it lol.

The rev kit is an interesting thought. I've always liked to keep the valve train light on my engines with titanium retainers and lighter valves to help with valve train stability without spending a bunch of money.

I have a 4.8 in one of my work trucks 335,000 miles never had the valve covers off. Quiet as quiet can be. It even has the factory Freon in it, but that's another story.

[JLMounce]

These threads remind me of the test that Don Johnston did a couple years back. A lot has been made of different oil pressures, oil band heights etc.

Dons test seems to show that it’s more of a QC issue. With a CC lifter in the bore, they leaked quite a bit of oil from the cup. Meanwhile the Crower hyd roller leaked very little from the cup.

I have noisy Lunati (morels) lifters and while I’ve not had reliability issues, the clatter sucks and depending on joe they are behaving, the engine behaves in tandem. The louder they are, the less power the engine makes and the sooner power drops off. If they’re quiet the engine will run to 6000 without even thinking about it and feels a good 30-40 hp more.

[tom s]

If I was to not use Hyd roller lifters I would try a tight lash solid roller cam and lifters.Putting solids on a Hyd roller is a crutch and you loose about 8 degrees of posted duration and lift depending on what you set them at.I used to set mine at 6 thou.FWIW,Tom

[i82much]

i’ve lost a solid flat and a solid roller. i am gonna stick with my noisy hyd roller and hope for the best. i have about 1400 miles on my new style comp hyd roller, noisy when warm but seem ok.

i might pull them off this winter and check them out, or send them to comp to see what they say.

surprised that lifter didn’t start making some different sounds before it let go?

[FrankieT/A]

Originally Posted by i82much

i’ve lost a solid flat and a solid roller. i am gonna stick with my noisy hyd roller and hope for the best. i have about 1400 miles on my new style comp hyd roller, noisy when warm but seem ok.

i might pull them off this winter and check them out, or send them to comp to see what they say.

surprised that lifter didn’t start making some different sounds before it let go?

Maybe it was because the axle got hammered out of it...

[i82much]

Originally Posted by FrankieT/A

Maybe it was because the axle got hammered out of it...

how does that happen though? i am no expert but it seems like you would need some slop to do any hammering, so to speak.

[FrankieT/A]

Noise is slop somewhere in that lifter.