[General Z]

You are talking about that U shaped connector for the ribbon wire on the column right?

Unplug the connector, and jum 12 volts to the circuit on the portion of the harness that goes back to the lights, not the upper portion of the harness that goes to the switch?

I can manage that.

[LPete]

Originally Posted by General Z

You are talking about that U shaped connector for the ribbon wire on the column right?

Unplug the connector, and jum 12 volts to the circuit on the portion of the harness that goes back to the lights, not the upper portion of the harness that goes to the switch?

I can manage that.

Exactly. That will power just one side of the rear lights at a time. If weird things happen you know it's in the wiring to the back or the sockets or grounds.

[General Z]

When I tried this, some weird things did happen.

1st, running a wire right from the battery to the terminals revealed the following:

sparks when I touched the wire to the circuit for the driver turn signal. although, this did then light up the driver tail lights continuously, no flashing.

the right side turn signal and brake lights did not come on at all when I touched them with the jumper wire.

I did find a blown fuse for the turn signals, and replaced it. I didn't notice this until after I tried the jumper wires.

Then, I plugged the harness back in, and was checking voltage between the terminals on the harness. There was 12 volts showing between the left and right turn signals. I don't remember if there was voltage showing between the blinkers and the brake light wire.

I don't figure there shoudl be 12 volts showing between the turn signal light wire terminals?

I will have to do a little more testing and post my results a bit later.

Thanks again.

[General Z]

Here's my latest analysis and findings.

Car is not running, just has a battery charger plugged in.

The 4 way flashers did not work before, but now after pulling the flasher out and putting it back in again, they do work, at full brightness to boot.

The 4 way flashers make the console lights blink, just like the left turn signal does.

Now, onto checking the wires at the u shaped harness. It was not possible to check for voltage at the switch side of the harness, with the harness disconnected.

However, with the switch connected, the driver side wire(being checked at the harness) was spiking to .3 volts and I didn't even have the other end of the multimeter grounded.

The driver side to the passenger side wires at the harness was showing 15 volts with each spike of the turn signal. The driver to brake light was spiking at .1 with each spike of the turn signal.

The passenger side wiring seems to be normal.

I checked for continuity between the driver and passenger wiring, with everything shut off and found continuity. So, I figured, just take almost everything out of the equation, and cut the wires at the harness and run new wires to the trunk. I did this, and nothing has changed.

My console lights still blink, and come on with the brakes as well.

I must be down to either the turn signal switch, or the brake switch / wiring, but the brake switch is new.

I am really stumped.

Do you have anything else I should try or test to nail this down?

Thanks again guys.

[General Z]

I also can't find the flasher for the turn signals, just the 4 way flasher. I can hear the turn signal flasher, but I can't find it anywhere.

Anyone know where?

[General Z]

Come to think of it, after all of this work that I have done, I never really have checked the sockets themselves out. I guess I just assumed that since they light brightly when they should, and dimly when they shouldn't that they were grounding properly.

By the way, how do I determine if the sockets are grounded properly?

By the way also, this car is not going to have reverse lights, at least for the time being, since my neutrral safety switch, is an aftermarket deal on a 700r4

[General Z]

Ok, I took all the rear bulbs out, cleaned all the bulbs and sockets and bent the socket contacts out a little bit then re-installed, still the same symptoms.

Thanks guys

[General Z]

Latest info: found the turn signal flasher. It was just tucked out of the way by the ignition key.

I grounded the bracket and put the flasher in it. This made no difference.

Although, the 4 way flasher sounds like it is on its way out and wasn't working correctly at first.

I also discovered that with the headlights on, the 4 way flasher won't work.

[LPete]

Throw out your voltmeter. It's confusing you. Also, checking continuity on a circuit is futile unless you know exactly what you're doing and how the circuit is wired. I'm confused about your terminology regarding how you're testing voltage and such.

Did you do what I suggested (powering BOTH rear circuits at the T/S switch harness connector, one at a time)? It sounded to me that you tested one, but not the other. Also, by taillights we're talking about the rear lights that come on dim with the headlights, right? And the brake/TS lights are the bright filament in each bulb?

What I specifically need to know is what happens to the console lights when you power each rear circuit with the T/S switch unhooked. Also, I'm confused about your powering the taillight circuit through the T/S switch connector. The taillights don't go through the T/S switch??

Don't give up -- there's an answer!

[General Z]

When I am referring to the tail lights, I guess I am meaning the turn signals.

After the driver side test, resulted in sparking when I connected an alligator clip to the unplugged harness, I checked the passenger wire as well and the brake wire. There was no sparking from them. However, I did notice the blown fuse a bit later, so it is possible that it was blown from the sparking and therefore, the testing of the driver turn signal and brake light wires, may not be valid.

The reason I was checking for continuity, was thinking that the wires must be making contact somewhere.

I also pulled the steering wheel, exposing the turn signal switch, if there is any contacts in there that you can recommend checking.

Thanks for the support, I am not giving up.

Tomorrow, I will re-do the test with the 12V jumper wire to the brake and passenger wires in the harness.

I will report back.

[LPete]

Back up a step or two.

The taillights (that come on with the headlights) are fed by one wire (I think it's gray) from the headlight switch. The power to them does NOT go through the T/S switch. That wire goes to the front and back of the car, and powers the dim filament in each bulb.

The turn signals are powered by four wires coming out of the T/S switch -- one to each front bulb (and the dash indicator for each side), and one to each set of rear bulbs. There is no separate brake circuit to the rear -- since the same filament is used for the brake lights and turn signals, one wire from the T/S switch powers both, turning on the bright filament in each bulb.

The color code for the wires at the switch should match the color of the wires at the lamps -- I should know what they are, but I can't remember for sure. I think green is one side and yellow the other. Those are the wires to hook power to at the switch. Let us know how it goes.

[General Z]

Yeah, I'm with you all the way. Yellow is the driver side, and green is the passenger side.

I realize that the tail lights and turn signal lights are not the same thing, or the same circuit. I did try the jumper wire to the white brake light wire, but this is just the wire that goes to the brake switch, there is no separate brake light wiring.

I'll do the jumper wire deal again tomorrow.

With my limited knowledge, I am suspecting the turn signal switch assembly and ribbon wire to harness?

It is weird though that the console lights and passenger turn signal lights seem to get about the same amount of power(based on brightness) when the driver turn signal is turned on. Its weird too that the console lights up at half power when I hit the brakes. Final thing that is really weird, is that the driver turn signal won't work when the headlights are on.

At least the problems seem to be isloated to the rear lighting, course I have the front parking / turn signal light wires cut off until the new lights arrive. I did check them with a test light though, in all the available positions, and things seem fine up front.

Thanks again.

[General Z]

I am attaching a cropped version of the wire diagram that I have to work with.

[george kujanski]

How about disconnecting the gauge connection and then checking the lighting? I think that's what started the entire mess. I think the two may be two separate problems; disconnect the gauges, Reconnect the lights and see what kind of operation you have.

make sure all the lighting is working FIRST, then connect the gauges to the dash lighting circuit, NOT the dome/courtesy circuit and see what you have.

Update:

General: in reading you various posts regarding your gauges, lights, ignition wiring, etc. my suggestion is: you basically need to get your ALL your wiring back into a known state..I would pull all the xtra wiring out and try to duplicate the OEM wiring as a starting point. The best way, but most costly, is to replace the harness, but it will be the most reliable.

Otherwise, arm yourself with a complete wiring diagram, you seem to have at least a partial diagram, and attack one circuit at a time, removing add-on wiring and reinstating the OEM wiring.

Overall, it sounds like your wiring is a cluster___, and you will be chasing problems and non-problems until you get it back near original.

Sorry, but that's what I would do.

George

[General Z]

That is basically what I am trying to do. I can't afford a whole new harness, so I m going through and trying to get rid of the old junk.

I will try disconnecting the console lights, although I don't think they are causing the problem. My dad gave me this car and he said that the tail lights did that for the whole time that he owned it.

My wiring diagram is pretty complete, it is just too large to scan the whole thing. Unfortunately, it doesn't show the console light wiring. The console lights are on the factory factory harness, which really overall, now that I have cleaned it up is pretty intact.

I will disconnect the console lights and do the jumper wire test also.

Thanks,

[General Z]

[QUOTE=make sure all the lighting is working FIRST, then connect the gauges to the dash lighting circuit, NOT the dome/courtesy circuit and see what you have.[/QUOTE]

I thought that the console lights are on the dash lighting circuit and not the dome courtesy circuit. The console lights I am referring to are the prndl bulbs only. This is what I tapped into for the gauge lights that I added.

[george kujanski]

Ok, then. disconnect your add-ons temporarily, then get rid of any previous "'innovative" wiring. Restore the proper wiring to the ignition switches, etc. You can do it since you have a good diagram.

Once all the xtra crap is out of the way, it will be easier to diagnose what you have. You need to get to that starting point.

Pull the seats out (if you haven't done so already) to make working under the dash more comfy.

George

[General Z]

Ok, cool. that is partly what I have been doing, so I am on the right path.

The more I look at the wiring diagram, I am really believing that the problem is in either the turn signal switch, or the head light switch.

The only innovative wiring I am still trying to get rid of is the ignition wiring. I'll bet you(resident guru) can answer my question for that problem too.

A previous owner had wired in a switch under the dash, that you have to flip to allow the key to crank the car. The electric fuel pump is also wired to this same switch. You have to flip the switch back to shut the car down, regardles of the key position. The switch is difficult to reach, and I think that it is dangerous.

I'd like to be able to use the ignition key as intended, and also have the electric fuel pump tied into it as well.

I also plan to go to an internally regulated alternator shortly, to compliment the new starter.

I have a trunk mounted battery, with welding cable setup.

My question is, which (color) ignition key switch wires do I need to tap into with the wires currently being used in the old owners set up?

He has one wire going to the "bat" terminal on the HEI / Distributor.

He has the other wire going straight to the alternator.

There is a factory purple wire that goes from the firewall bulkhead connector to the fender mounted solenoid.

I'd like to know which wire(s) on the ignition switch I need to tap into to do away with this switch setup?

I imagine that I only need to use the wire going to the "bat" terminal on the HEI / Distributor and I can do away with the wire that goes to the alternator. I think I just need to tap into the proper ignition wire?

Also, I plan to buy an alternator probably this weekend, and do all the wiring at once, if that helps any.

Finally, does anyone know an application that I can tell the guys at a regular auto parts store to make sure I get a proper fitting and functioning 3 wire, internally regulated alternator? I don't need chrome or anything fancy.

I imagine that I can do away with the wire to the alternator, since it is probably just there to make contact with the battery?

I figure the fuel pump wire and the wire that goes to the "bat" terminal on the distributor, needs to be tied into the pink "IG" wire, and or the red "B" wire.

Thank you all so much, you guys have been so helpful for this newbie.

Thank you so much for all this help. I'd really be lost without the guideance.

[george kujanski]

General: what you NEED to do is reinstate the under-dash ignition wiring back to the same as on the diagram. Get rid of the xtra switch, remove the xtra wiring to the alt, and forget about the fuel pump and new alternator for the time being; take care of those later once the original wiring is reinstated. Do the wiring fixup first, the mods for your accessories later.

One thing at a time...

Your diagram shows the wire colors on the ignition switch and where they go to the bulkhead connector. You have the information; my telling you will involve me reading the diagram and reading it back to you; a picture is worth 1K words....

One thing: the purple wire from the ignition switch USED to go to the OEM starter solenoid..in your case you state you have a fender-mounted solenoid(actually a relay). The purple wire goes thru the bulkhead connector to the "S" terminal on this relay.

George

[General Z]

Thanks, but the thing I don't understand is wether or not I need to hook both the pink "IG" wire and the red "bat" wire to the dist "bat" terminal, or just one of them.