[Frank69]

69 Firebird 350 w/400 tranny stocker. Replaced all bulbs and the circuit board in dash panel. Temp wire from sender to where ever it goes shows short on meter. E brake switch good and lite lit couple of times when first re assembled. Now no lite in temp warning lite or E brake warning lite. Another strange thing the key in ignition buzzer will buz when the motor is running and door is opened. The ashtray fiber optic cable was never connected at the factory and is connected and now works. Anyone have any ideas? Grounds seem to be fine. Clock even works! Thanks for your help and advise in advance. Frank69

[johnta1]

When you turn the ignition key to start, does the temp light turn on?

Another strange thing the key in ignition buzzer will buz when the motor is running and door is opened.

Not sure, but think that may be normal?

Metal ground strap on circuit board put back on?

Might make sure the steering column connector is tight.
And the connector on the IP board.

[Frank69]

Thanks for your reply. The Temp light does not come on at ignition. The ground strap is on and I have Oil Press and Alt lites as normal. The brake warning lite will not lite with brake on when ignition is turned on. Have checked the connections and they seem to be ok. Double checked the bulbs and fuses and they seem to be ok. Been driving to some cruises like this but there must be a reason for this failure. Thanks for you help. Frank69

[johnta1]

Is there 12 volts to the parking brake switch?

Also does the alternator light come on when the key is on, engine off?

[johnta1]

My schematic for the 69 Bird is not great (on my computer).

Here is a cutout:



I think this is supposed to connect to the IP board?

Anyway, it looks like the tan wire should have power, the emergency brake switch just provides a ground to light the bulb, there is also a low pressure switch on the master cylinder that connects to this.
(same for the temp switch basically)

[Goatracer1]

The Temp light will only light in the "CRANK" position as a test not "IGN" unless it's overheating. To test the light in the "IGN" position ground the wire going to the sensor. To test the parking brake light ground the wire at the switch on the brake ratchet.

[Frank69]

Thanks to all you guys for the info. I will be doing these test and let you know the results as soon as the temp in my garage goes below the 90 deg level.
It was 97 here yesterday.. Would be swell to get these lights working properly again. Had this car since l979 and we are ole friends. looking for cooler weather soon.. Thanks again! Frank69

[Frank69]

Johnta1 Checked the Park brake switch and the tan wire has no voltage. Can not read my schematic well enough to tell where the power comes from. On the right track. Also the temp light does not light in any ign switch position. Should come on when ign is in on position then go off when engine starts right? (unless motor is over heating) Just had to check this P brake switch to see if it was hot and it is not. Thanks for your help and assistance. Frank69

[johnta1]

Also the temp light does not light in any ign switch position. Should come on when ign is in on position then go off when engine starts right? (unless motor is over heating)

Correct.

Not sure where the power comes from that should be for the brake light.
Possibly from the connector that is on the firewall?
(above/below fuse box?)

[Goatracer1]

Temp light comes on for a test ONLY when the ignition switch is in the START (CRANK) position. When in the IGNITION position the wire at the sensor (sending unit) must be grounded to light the lamp.
The voltage for the parking light switch comes from the bulb in the dash. The switch GROUNDS the bulb.

[johnta1]

So possibly the circuit board that was replaced is bad also?

[Goatracer1]

Have you checked the fuses?

[Frank69]

Have checked fuses. Seem to be ok. Other lites work on same fuse. I notice when looking at the pc board I removed that the Brake lite and the temp lite are powered together. Other lites are separate. Since these lites aren't working it may be a prob somewhere in this line. All other lites work fine. Just the E Brake warning lite and the temp gauge. PC installed is from Ames and I also have one from Classic Ind as a spare. All started when E Brake lite stopped working. Found the connection damaged by fluid from the spedo cable which is mounted above the B light. Changing the pc is a big job.. Thank you guys for all your help. Frank69

["QUICK-SILVER"]

Originally Posted by Frank69

Have checked fuses. Seem to be ok. Other lites work on same fuse.

What "other lites" are you talking about being on the same fuse?
GEN and OIL are the only other Ign switch powered lights that I'm seeing. Or would be power for gauges if it doesn't have those lights.

Check fuses again even if they look good. Probe both ends and clips with a test light even if the strip appears to be intact. Fuses will let go or blow out in the end caps and still look good.

Might try reaching in and trying to wiggle the circuit board connector/plug-in.
Possibly just not making good contact.

Tough to say but got to be something simple
Clay

[Frank69]

Hi, The lites for oil and temp are on the fuse bloc under Gauges w/ 10 amp fuse. Thats why I can't see why the oil lite works but the temp lite will not lite!...Fuse must be good or the oil lite wouldn't work... The manual page for the fuse bloc does not address the Em Brake lite. Wish I could wiggle the connection for the PC board as you suggest but Its hidden in the dash for now. I may need to go into the dash panel again so I can check this connection. I am sure you are right it must be somethng simple!.. Thank You for your help and maybe we can get this prob solved.. Where does the PC Board get its power? From the ign Switch? I don't now much about this car I have had since l979! Thanks again Frank69

["QUICK-SILVER"]

Originally Posted by Frank69

Hi, The lites for oil and temp are on the fuse bloc under Gauges w/ 10 amp fuse.

Correct on that. All the warning lights and fuel guage get power from that fuse.

Originally Posted by Frank69

Thats why I can't see why the oil lite works but the temp lite will not lite!

Yes that's the puzzler. In your original post you mentioned a short in the sender wire. A short to ground would/should turn the temp light on any time the switch was on. That's got to be looked in to a little further.

Originally Posted by Frank69

Fuse must be good or the oil lite wouldn't work...

That's a fact.

Originally Posted by Frank69

The manual page for the fuse bloc does not address the Em Brake lite.

It's pretty simple; the bulb has power anytime the switch is on. The E-brake switch and brake pressure failure switch are the grounds to turn the bulb on.

Originally Posted by Frank69

I may need to go into the dash panel again so I can check this connection.

I'm afraid that's going to be a definite.

Originally Posted by Frank69

Where does the PC Board get its power? From the ign Switch?

Looks like the pink with black stripe wire, from the ign switch powered guage fuse, is the only hot wire for warning lights and fuel guage.
The other lights and indicator bulbs get power from their related components. They are grounded in the dash and getting power turns them on. Where the warning lights have power going through them then a switch or sender provides the ground to turn them on.

Other than the temp sender wire issue you mentioned (and maybe including it) it's looking like something is wrong with the printed circuit or the plug-in/connector going to it.

I've had to clean and tweak/bend the terminals in the PC connector so they would make better contact. I've put tape on the edge of the hole in the cluster so the terminals in the connector would make tighter contact with the PC.

Good luck for now and keep us updated on any findings.
Clay

Little more: That new PC needs looked at close and compared to the original. All the contact spots on the flatwire in the PC need looked at to make sure there's no excess plastic causing them to be insulated. Bulb sockets also need looked at close. Brass contacts, on sockets and PC connector, get old and stiff (lose their spring) with age.

Good luck again
Clay

[rexs73gto]

If & when you take the PC out again make sure you put the old original one up against the new one to make sure they are the same. You may have one for different options & there then not getting power to where they need it. Always compare them before you install them. Ask me how I know this. WOW.

[Frank69]

This is a puzzle.. Have the orig pc board and did compare it to the one now in the car and the spare and they are the same. Since the power to the dash comes from the ignition switch (down on the column) could there be a failure somewhere here? Everything seems to get a signal from the ignition being turned on. This is my last great hope before a serious dash operation. I am not sure about the green wire from the temp sender having a short. Had a tech look at it and he checked it with an instrument and said it had a short....
Sure do appreciate you guys helping with this puzzle. I think when this is fixed the ole Bird will be in great condition. (Has not been wet in over 5 years so it gets pretty good care) Thanks very much. Frank69

["QUICK-SILVER"]

Originally Posted by Frank69

Since the power to the dash comes from the ignition switch (down on the column) could there be a failure somewhere here? Everything seems to get a signal from the ignition being turned on.

Gauge fuse being hot when you turn the switch on pretty much gurantees that part of the wiring is good and working like it's suppose to.

Originally Posted by Frank69

This is my last great hope before a serious dash operation.

That's not looking to promising right now.

Originally Posted by Frank69

I am not sure about the green wire from the temp sender having a short. Had a tech look at it and he checked it with an instrument and said it had a short.

It would be normal to get some kind of ohm reading while testing the green temp sending unit wire under the hood. At minimum it would've had temp light bulb resistance and ever how much resistance/ohms the fuel guage has. This is just because of the way the printed circuit is layed out with one power wire going to several different things.
So depending on what kind of reading the tech guy got....there may not be a short at all. It would be nice to know what kind of reading he got.

If you haven't all ready tried; turn the switch on and touch the temp sending unit wire straight to the engine somewhere. That would make the temp light come on if (BIG IF) the temp bulb is getting power the same as the oil light.
Temp bulb test coming on while cranking is a different set of ground wires that works through the ignition switch in crank position only.

So ground the sending unit wire and let us know what happens. If the temp light comes on, things aren't quite as bad as it seems.

Got to remember that bulbs or sockets not making good contact on the back of the cluster might be the whole problem.

Good luck again
Clay

[Frank69]

Have turned the ign switch on with the green wire under the hood grounded and no lite. When I installed the panel last time I installed new sockets and new bulbs and tested all of them. All worked well and were tight. Also examined the new board carefully to be sure it was the same as the old and as well as I could tell it looked great. I too am wondering what the tech found and said it was a short. Doubt if he would remember now. The low brake fluid sensor is not connected properly but it never has been as long as I can remember. This is the wire that hooks to side of the
master cylinder to turn on the brake lite when fluid is low. Still wonder why the alt and oil lite and everything else works and this temp lite is not being agreeable! Thanks again for all your time and effort. Frank69