[george kujanski]

Since this does not happen with OEM wiring, something is different. I would trace where the power is coming from when the engine is supposed to be shut down. Is it coming thru the ignition switch or thru another path?

George

[azbirds]

The puzzling thing it that the whole system is stock, so I'm going to look at the ignition switch since that is the path to the coil. This was a low mileage 69 T/A when I picked it up in 1984, and to date, nothing has been cut up.

[rohrt]

I had a very similar issue.

I found that the Yellow wire to the coil that comes from the starter, was a bit melted and had rubbed through. It was making contact on the + positive threads of the battery cable post on the starter.

Not sure if the 69 wiring is the same. I was working on a 68.

http://thefirstgensite.com/library/e...ir/69wir1.html
Looking now at the 69 wiring and I only see a purple wire to the coil. Oh! I guess they re routed the yellow into the interior and then onto the purple.

["QUICK-SILVER"]

Need to get some stuff cleared up. 'Key off' engine running we know there's power to the coil. 'Key off' engine off is there power at the coil? Earlier update post wasn't clear on that. Just said engine died when alternator was unplugged.

This is starting to sound like an earlier thread about a 'run on' condition. That car did have a bunch of updated electronics, EFI with relays and such, but ignition 1 to coil was still hooked up with factory wires. IGN-1 was staying hot with 'key off' engine running. With battery disconnect the car continued to run from alternator charging. Feed back from a shorted out part kept IGN-1 hot enough to power relays but was also strong enough to power a HEI distributor.

Engine off the short voltage was floating and would even go away when probed with a test light. Yet power was strong enough to keep HEI going as long as the alternator was charging.

Cure didn't come till page 2 in the thread. So this is something else worth trying. Unplugging the turn signal connector, under dash, should be enough to see if it's a similar problem.

Link to thread...it was a hoot..and a tricky one to figure out.http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=791864

I'ld also check the emergency flasher button in case it got accidently bumped and got stuck in the half way position.

Been busy studying wiring diagrams for days now trying to figure out all the possible feed back areas and then remembered the other thread.

If nothing else it will help narrow things down
Clay
PS Amazing how little voltage it takes to keep a coil/distributor firing.

[azbirds]

Thanks for all the feedback (pun intended). The power to the coil is off with the key off and engine stalled to stop it. The coil energizes with the key turned to the "on" position like intended. With the Ram Air manifolds I can see the wires at, and to the starter. All is good with the starter wires.

[johnta1]

It happened on its own. I let the clutch out in gear with the key off to shut it down. It has no power to the ignition once its off. I did put an alternator on it after this condition started.

Was the 1st alternator the factory type using the external regulator?

With the new alternator how is it wired?
(asked before didn't see an answer)

Is the '1' wire alternator actually one wire or one big wire and a smaller wire to switch or somewhere?

Is the regulator still wired up?

[azbirds]

Great read. I started the car, shut off key. With it still running I pulled the harness apart for the turn signals and it kept running. Just pulled horn relay and it keeps running.

[azbirds]

John, it is an internally regulated alt with factory wiring. Power wire, and a two wire plug. The car had an internal regulator from the factory.

[azbirds]

ROHRT
"Looking now at the 69 wiring and I only see a purple wire to the coil. Oh! I guess they re routed the yellow into the interior and then onto the coil."
I think that was done for the neutral safety switch.

["QUICK-SILVER"]

Originally Posted by azbirds

John, it is an internally regulated alt with factory wiring. Power wire, and a two wire plug. The car had an internal regulator from the factory.

That's a new for me. So need to find a different wiring diagram to look at.
Thinking more about it now, did the TA have a volt meter or charge indicator light, or both?

Definitely getting a bunch ruled out with what you've checked so far.

And what type of ignition system has your car got?

Clay

[johnta1]

Here's a 70 Bird diagram:

see if it is close?

[azbirds]

The internally regulated alternator was started in the 69 model year. Ive had 9 69's at the same time,and from what it looked like, the internal reg showed up about mid model year. John, I would say the wiring diagram would be accurate, but i will need a magnifier for my old eyes.

["QUICK-SILVER"]

Originally Posted by "QUICK-SILVER"

Thinking more about it now, did the TA have a volt meter or charge indicator light, or both?

Still like to know if it has volt meter or light, or both.

Would also like to know what voltage is at coil +. That's with engine running in both 'key on' and 'key off' positions.

If there's a voltage change it would mean resistance is involved and might give a clue to how power is getting back in to IGN-1.

If it does have a charge indicator light...is it on when you cut the switch off and engine still running?

Volt meter cars have a fixed resistor somewhere in the field wire.
IDK but maybe George can tell us if a resistor can go bad and allow more current go through it.

Still thinking/studying..need more info
Clay

[azbirds]

It has a gen light, and it does not illuminate at any point. With the engine off and ignition on it has 12V to the coil. Running it has 12V at the coil. Here's where it gets weird, leave the key on and stall the engine and I get 12.6V at the coil!!

["QUICK-SILVER"]

Originally Posted by azbirds

It has a gen light, and it does not illuminate at any point. With the engine off and ignition on it has 12V to the coil. Running it has 12V at the coil.

Did the GEN light ever work? If it quit when the 'run on' started, I know where I'ld be looking. If the bulb is shorted or flat wire in the printed circuit messed up letting the two different flat wires to the bulb touch....that would explain what's going on.

Originally Posted by azbirds

Here's where it gets weird, leave the key on and stall the engine and I get 12.6V at the coil!!

Not sure about that. Unless the battery just has more juice from just comming off charge.

Volts with 'key off' engine running might tell us something. If volts are lower than 'key on' and running it could give a clue to what power is feeding back through.

Clay

[1969GiPper]

Originally Posted by azbirds

The internally regulated alternator was started in the 69 model year. Ive had 9 69's at the same time,and from what it looked like, the internal reg showed up about mid model year. John, I would say the wiring diagram would be accurate, but i will need a magnifier for my old eyes.

To the best of my knowledge the first internally regulated alternator for Pontiacs started production with the first 1969 Grand Prix equipped with BOTH air conditioning and a heated rear (grid) window defogger.

[johnta1]

John, I would say the wiring diagram would be accurate, but i will need a magnifier for my old eyes.

Try pressing the CTRL and + together, it will magnify it.

[johnta1]

1969GiPper, that's what I thought.
But some of the 400 engine Firebirds got the internal regulator alternator.
I've never seen one, but they do have alternator numbers for them.

[azbirds]

I'll check the voltage to the coil with key off engine running tomorrow. I will also take the bulb out of the gen position to eliminate that. I use to have arguments with parts guys about the alternator all the time.

["QUICK-SILVER"]

I'ld also be curious about voltage (and difference in) on both sensing and field terminals with 'key on', engine off and alternator/voltage regulator un-plugged. Before and after you pull the bulb.