[dpoltzer]

Thanks again Mickey, I will test this tonight. Dave

["QUICK-SILVER"]

If you've lost power on the orange wire...You'll need to check fusible links under the hood. Don't know if they'll be behind the alternator or down at the starter with the aftermarket harness.

Clay

[dpoltzer]

I talked to one of the awesome techs at American Autowire with my phone on speaker and my multimeter in hand. I did place the meter in "continuity" mode (As suggested here) and the tech walked me thru several tests. We determined that the relay was not operating properly. What a bitch to get the relay removed from the firewall with a car that is fully assembled. The replacement Relay will be here in a few days and we will know for certain if that is the problem. Sux that a brand new part was defective. I will let you all know and thanks again for the great input all!!!

[Mickey_London]

My new Relay was the same.
Being from the UK it was just easier for me to take it apart and fix it, rather then send it back to the US and wait another couple of weeks for the replacement
Anyway, will be all all fixed when your relay turns up
Mick

[dpoltzer]

Mickey, I opened the "bad relay" and I noticed that the taller set of contacts on the Black and green side of the relay were touching or maybe energized is the correct term. I wonder if I could have bent the arm a touch so that contact wasn't being made. Do you know if there is supposed to be a gap and how many thousands the gap should be?

[Geoff]

If you look at the pic in post #25, the taller contacts are closed [ NC, normally closed ]. Designed that way, not a fault with the relay. The other contact is NO [ normally open ].

[Mickey_London]

To get mine to work I did exactly what you are asking.
This was before I see that picture that Geoff has pointed out.
With mine bent back, so that the top contacts are not touching, mine works perfectly now
I bent it back so the gap looks similar to the others. I didn't measure it
With an old car battery I tested the relay before putting the cover back on
Perhaps someone more knowlegable can explain.
Mick

[Old Goat 67]

That drawing is confusing. Can't figure just what the top contacts are supposed to do. They break a path from the horn button to the dome light??

The bottom contacts are the ones that close a contact to complete the circuit to provide a path for the horn to operate from battery.

BUT when they do close, WHERE does the battery voltage come from on the movable arm? Pin 4 does not show a battery voltage there applied from the Ign switch although it must be otherwise the wire on pin 3 would never have 12V applied to close a path for to the horns to operate.

Why is the door switch and dome light included in this drawing?? This drawing needs something that is left unexplained! There must be a better drawing somewhere.
Does anyone know where one is available?

[johnta1]

The door light switch is probably for the door buzzer when key is in and door open?

[johnta1]

That drawing is confusing. Can't figure just what the top contacts are supposed to do. They break a path from the horn button to the dome light??

The bottom contacts are the ones that close a contact to complete the circuit to provide a path for the horn to operate from battery.

BUT when they do close, WHERE does the battery voltage come from on the movable arm? Pin 4 does not show a battery voltage there applied from the Ign switch although it must be otherwise the wire on pin 3 would never have 12V applied to close a path for to the horns to operate.

The relay is powered all the time.
The horn switch provides a complete circuit by GROUNDING the circuit.
(makes a complete path)


Same for the key circuit.
When door is open and key is in ignition, it completes the ground circuit to the relay coil. which pulls the horn contact down, making horn work.When contact goes down it interrupts the top contact, opening that circuit. (shutting off horn)

Then repeats until key out or door closes.

[Old Goat 67]

The relay winding has power all the time. Pushing the horn button would cause current to flow and operate the bottom contact to close and the top one to open. Granted.

So, tell me, where does the bottom contact get power to blow the horn??? There is no connection from the ign switch showing battery feeding from it to that bottom contact!

That drawing is flawed!

["QUICK-SILVER"]

Originally Posted by Old Goat 67

So, tell me, where does the bottom contact get power to blow the horn???

The metal stand and lower contact arm are not insulated. Has what ever battery voltage is available.

Staying away from the key buzzer part of it. Something there does not look right. Like completing the key ground would blow the horn???

Clay

[Old Goat 67]

Yes, basically what you have in that rudimentary drawing when the relay is energized is ground being applied through the dome light, through the door switch, through a contact in the ign switch, to an open upper contact in the relay. In effect NOTHING happens there!

[johnta1]

Need to follow the diagram!

Door closed (no noise, no circuit powered):





Door opens with key in ignition:



Between the 2 contact arms, it's insulated from each arm.
There must be a spring like effect on the post that holds the 2 contact arms.
When the normally open horn arm makes contact when the coil is energized it pulls the top contact down with it. This opens the top contact for the buzzer, de-energizing the coil. The 2 contacts spring back to where the top contact closes, repeating the process until the door closes.

All this (door buzzer) doesn't have anything to do with the horn blowing from pushing the horn on the steering wheel.

You guys can try and see what happens if something goes wrong in the relay container to make the horn blow all the time.
Or what wire needs to make a ground to make the horn blow all the time.

["QUICK-SILVER"]

Originally Posted by johnta1

John, Thanks for that explination. Makes sense now. Key buzzer doesn't/can't keep the coil energized to blow the horn. Just rapid open and close from the contacts breaking.

OP, those top contacts are suppose to be touching when the relay isn't energized. It's the lower set of contacts that have to touch for the horn to blow.

Clay

[LATECH]

From post 36. Maybe I did not explain clear enough IDK

Originally Posted by LATECH

How the circuit/relay works:

For the key in ignition buzzer, it is as follows the power flows to the relay coil, then to the upper point arm , passes through and on to terminal 4. Then a switch at the key needs to be on (key in ignition closing contacts) and ALSO the door switch needs to on (door open switch grounded) .That activates the circuit.

How does it buzz you ask.?

The power flows in the circuit as long as the upper points contact is touching (circuit on) .That set of points is normally closed, meaning always conducting/turned on. well, when the circuit is active , the relay opens the upper points contact, which de energizes the circuit and the points close, power up the circuit again.It does this real fast, like may times a second,and by doing this it causes the relay to make a buzzing noise.

Hope this helps

[dpoltzer]

Here are pictures of the bad relay.

[dpoltzer]

I opened the Relay up and here is what it looks like inside. Can you see anything obviously wrong? Thx

[johnta1]

LATECH, I think they needed visualization. (your explanation spot on)






Picture worth 1000 words.

[johnta1]

You did nothing to this relay internally?


Looks like the contacts are bent all around.
Possibly the top arm is bent down enough that it makes the bottom contact touching.
(thus making the horn blow all the time)