[donpontiac]

jerry h. that all fits. i dropped off the white car at don's private shop a few miles from the race shop. he showed me the blue car which he said was the sd. you could look inside and see the ground. really rusty. the white car had an excelent body and was to be a doner for the blue car. i didn't know he had sold the car.
don also restored a 63 cat for roger that was a clone to his black stock car. it's supposed to be in a museum someplace now. i posted an original pic of this car earlier in this same thread. i think penske may have won riverside in that car. we'd like to see some pics of the blue 61 car that apparently bares the white lightning body. thanks for the post, don

[DF368]

Donpontiac;
You're right. What a fantastic thread this has been. I started off just curious as to what had become of another old '61 and end up with a small novel. It's great hearing from everyone out there and all your experiences. Keep the pix and stories flowing. Thanks, Doug

[Jerry H.]

If that's the 63 that raced at Pikes Peak, its at Floyd Garretts Musclecar Museum in Pigeon Forge, Tn. Last time I talked with him he told me he had bought the 63 SD road race car that raced at Pikes Peak. He didn't say where he bought it from. It's a small world. My other friend that initially bought the blue 61SD from Don @ Penske; his son works up there @ Penske on Ryan Newmans Nascar Team.

[sdbob]

There was a nice article in Pontiac Ent. about Johnny Muro's Pikes Peak car. It was previously owned by ,can't remember his name but was a Governor from the Dakota's. i guess this post is for 61 and down. Maybe sometime we all could meet and show what pictures we have and talk, of coarse some might want'a brung their goolashes.

[J Brady]

I got hooked on these cars in 1963. My brother had a 63 421 tripower Cat that he bought new. He raced it at the 1/8th mile track in Topeka. JB Sharp had the 63 SD Tempest that Bill Blair has now. I can remember watching it run. As I remember it ran in the mid 8's in the 8th. Arnie ran their once in the summer of 63 with his 63 Catalina and I remember that he spanked the 62 409 that was sponsored by Ira Price Cafe in Topeka. I beleive it was Ira's son. In 66 I bought a 62 Catalina 2 dr sedan with a 421 4seed. Manhattan opened their 1/4 mile that year and I raced it their for several years. I hope to have my 61 Ventura done this spring and can't wait to hopefully go in the 10's.

[60man]

Picture. I hope ?!

Outlaw Pontiac Racers Association"For Those Who Live The Legend"
Do it now fool! Life is short.

60 Ventura 4300# 12.38 @ 108.10 / 1.66 60'

[60man]

Sorry.
Can not get re-size to stick!?????????

Outlaw Pontiac Racers Association"For Those Who Live The Legend"
Do it now fool! Life is short.

60 Ventura 4300# 12.38 @ 108.10 / 1.66 60'

[60man]

I'll try again for pic.???

Outlaw Pontiac Racers Association"For Those Who Live The Legend"
Do it now fool! Life is short.

60 Ventura 4300# 12.38 @ 108.10 / 1.66 60'

[Jerry H.]

I owned a 63 Grand Prix for over 10 years that was an ex-drag race car. It was bought new by a gentleman on Long Island. He bought it with the base 389 engine, 4 speed, HD springs and shocks, PS & brakes, no air. When I bought the car in the late 80's it had only 10k original miles. Supposedly he drove it out to the drag strip and raced it all weekend, and then drove it back home. His 'partner' found out that I owned the car and called me and gave me all the details at one time. He said the reason he ordered it with that engine combo was the HP/weight ratio which put him in a very desirable class at the time. He said he was very competitive in that class. You could tell where the old round track championship decals had been on the rear quarter glasses of the car when you had it in the right light. Also, he had welded some tow bar brackets on the front frame rails and when he sold it, he just cut them off even with the bottom with the frame. Another trick at the time was to trim off all the cooling fins on the alternator to reduce drag. They had done this on this GP. I sold this to a collector in Oklahoma. Last time I talked with him, he had sold it to a friend in Texas. What a neat car!

[sdbob]

From what I've been told the 389/303hp was very competitive. Although I always wanted the 421. That 389 that you had sounds like the 303. My 63GP was light blue,blue interior,4spd,std steering and brakes.No options! I had a 421 in it.

[Jerry H.]

Yes, it was the standard 303 HP. When I bought the car I got the original order sheet from the dealer, the bill of sale, protectoplate, etc. Also I got a well used 63 Service Manual with a lot of notes where he had pull the heads and installed thin head gaskets,etc and a lot of other fine tuning mods.

[donpontiac]

we'll try to post this long awaited pic.

[sdbob]

64 That color looks close to the color of my 63 GP I had nice. Thanks for the picture on Max's 61 that looks like the same picture from Smoke Signals.

[donpontiac]

ditto that!

[buds56]

i saw that 61 in manassas park in 1988,i offered him $500 for it and i couldn't figure out why he didn't take it. it still sounded pretty healthy
when the motor came out at the time it was sold.

[sdbob]

It's kind of strange. I don't remember taking any pictures. I may have one someplace. I had never thought about taking pictures of my cars until I got married and my wife wanted some. the 63 sat up a little more than stock you could tell it was modified. Also I was 'poor'at the time so I never ran it at the track only street racing on stock tires. still looking for decal 64.

[DF368]

Donpontiac & all
Thanks for posting that picture of "White Lightning". I wish that I could've had the chance to run against that car. I noticed right away the "wrinkle walls" on the back. We ran M&H for a couple years and had them pressured at around 10lbs. Do you remember pinning them to the rims with sheet metal screws? In the middle of the '68 season I got one of the first sets of Goodyear D-4s from Penske. He warned me not to set the pressure below 24-26lbs. as they were really sticky. Well I knew that big indian would only break 'em loose at that kinda pressure, so I dropped it down to about 12lbs. one night up at Utica-Rome (1/8 mile). I pulled up in the staging area, cleaned off the tires with a good burn out, backed up and staged. When the light went green I just sat there like a schmuck. First broken axle. The man was right, those D-4s were sticky. Anybody know what jetting Max might've run in the Rochesters or what total timing he used? Curious, because I can still recall that stuff all these years later. Later.

[donpontiac]

jerry h. and all: i just had a nice phone call from max sterling. he tells me that he had and still has a 62 sd white lightning car. he invited me up for a visit and to take a few pics. i wonder if he'll let me take it for a test drive!!! he was also asking what ever happened to the 61 w/l car that we've been discussing here. i told him what i knew and he's wondering where this blue 61 sd car is. jerry h., if you could provide any further info on it, we'd be grateful. doug, he also wants to know what car you or your father was running when they competed. year, model, color, car name and where you all were from. he IS retired now and has leased his shop out. i'm looking foward to our visit. i'll try to hit him up for some vintage drag racing photos. later guys.

[DF368]

Don & all; Tell Max that we (my brother Mark and myself) were running the '61 on the trailer shown earlier in this thread. Never got around to naming it. After the '68 season I had already decided to haul down to Cecil or Aquasco and seek out Max. You always want to find out how good you are against the best. However, a death in the family prevented it and within a year and a half I was out of racing. I always wondered what we might have run because up until '69 we'd been running without the SD heads. Don't know how much difference it might have made but I would have liked to try it. I like the way "White Lightning" came off the line in that photo. Just picked up and got goin'. Man those cars could move. One of my favorite runs of all time was a time trial at Lebanon Valley against a B/S Chevelle(396/375HP). This guy was everything up there and didn't think much of an old '61 Catalina. Heads up I beat him by at least a car length. Always fun beating Chevys but especially the cocky ones.Later.

[Jerry H.]

Don, I am out of town at a swap meet but when I get back home I will try to get in touch with the last known owner and find out more info. I will keep you informed.