[Poncho60]

Just out of curiosity, are there major strength or performance improvements in the 64 super hydro compared to the 60 version-----or just mainly refinements? thx for any feedback.

RA

[PITTSBURGH 64]

I believe the 64 in the only year that will fit the newer 64 up crank register. Internally I think they are basically the same unit.
I just installed a 60 governor in my 64 hydro.

My 64 hydro has over 35,000 behind a stout 462 and its always ready for anything the engine can throw at it.

Check out the governor post over in the 61-66 section. I'm trying to put together as much hydro info as I can. So far the only thing wrong I can find with this transmission is peoples ignorance of it. I prefer it hands down over my 4L60 and my 200R4.

[Poncho60]

I keep waiting to hear that the unit in your 64 can't handle the power---but I guess that's not the case. Makes sense I guess within certain limits as there were some 421s put in front of that trans from 62-64. My 60 Ventura Vista just has the std 2 brl setup on it for now, but with the hydro and the 3.08 posi-trak it will hustle right along if I get on it. Just concerns me that almost no one (apparently) knows much about fixing these correctly anymore. Guess that's just part of the "fun" of fooling with these old Darksiders. Thx for the reply!

[stevep]

There are plenty of people who can fix that trans. If you go to a local cruise night, ask the guys with 56-64 Caddys, Olds and Pontiacs. I'm sure that you will find a few people who can do the job properly.

The 60 trans is INTERNALLY identical to the 64. A 60 trans is for a 60 only. It can be used in a 59 if you are creative, but will not bolt in to anything later than a 60 block. There are some slight calibration differences between the years. It actually is a strong trans. Jeff has more than proven that fact! If you have any questions, I will be happy to try to answer them.

[Jerry H.]

A few years back I owned a 62 GP that someone had fitted a 63 421HO with a super hydro behind it. You should have seen how they 'modified' the tranny tunnel (with a BIG hammer) to get it to fit. What a super combo! That car would fly and had ton's of power off the line.

[PITTSBURGH 64]

That 421 HO was the first year for the 068 cam.

Here is a photo of John Woods Catalina and what he had to do to get the Super hydro in it.

[Bill Eveland]

So does the 64 hydro use a seperate converter unlike the 55 dual range with the torus I had? And what flexplate would I use, is there a special one for 61-64 hydro use only? or just use the flexplate on my 66 389.

[stevep]

The 64 Hydro uses a fluid coupling that is similar in design to a Dual Range.
The flexplate may be 61-64 Pontiac with Dual Coupling only, but there may be different plates for different years. I thought that were the same but a parts book will tell the truth.

What are you putting it in?

[Bill Eveland]

If my th-400 doesn't work out I would like to put a hydro back in my 55. If the trans could be made to work with my 66 389 than it would be an option. Since I had this engine built along time ago, the dual range wasn't an option and I have a th-400 in there now. . I'm just not real famaliar with that trans is all.

[stevep]

Which Hydro, Dual Range (up to 55/56) or Dual Coupling (56-64)?

A 64 Dual Coupling will bolt right up to the 66 389 with the proper flexplate.

[Bill Eveland]

I had the dual range. I didn't have any plans to use the 287, so I got rid of the trans.

It seems people usually do the opposire of what i'm doing and switch to a newer trans. I'm sure with reliability and rebuild cost? Are there any performance mods that can be done or anything else to look for?

Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions. Sorry for the thread hijack.

[Poncho60]

No problem with hijacking the thread--it's all very interesting to me. Never realized there were so many subtle differences that came along with all these trans changes. I asked for and received a catalog from B&M back when I was just starting to get interested in cars----wish I still had that catalog----had some good hydrostick info in it. Thx for all the great replies. I'm happy with the hydro in my 60, was just wondering what I would do if I ever had a major problem.

[PITTSBURGH 64]

The only thing my hydro needs is a governor that will hold the first to second shift a little longer. In the video you can hear coupling lock in first by the tire scrach but I'd like first to hold longer. First to second shifts at 4000 with second to third at 5000. That would be ok for a 068 cammed car but my 041 cammed 455 has a lot more steam left.
This car has a 2.56 posi but it still pulls out hard.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LeI9ge_PUs

[Steve Barcak]

I would like to know more about these trans too. I have plenty of them in my yard and most or all years too.
What are the gear ratios? As far as Pontiacs, 1961-4, I know they came in Star Chiefs and Bonnevilles. The GPs, Venturas and Catalinas got the slim jims.

What about 1960 and older Pontiacs? Bonne only? or which models?

I know you guys will appreciate these pics. For those who do not know, I just completed what is probably the greatest Pontiac road trip of all time. I know, that is quite a title but, I drove my round port 455HO '72 GTO for almost 7 weeks and just under 11,000 miles. I do not think anyone has taken a Pontiac for a cruise that length of time or miles. I came close in 1993 when I drove a '70 GTO 10,500 miles in 4 weeks.
Anyway, while on this trip, I visited a Automotive heritige museum in Ypsalanti, Mi. While there, I saw a display cut away of the trans we are talking about. I would guess it is the only one made or existing. These trans were built in Ypsilanti according to the museum.
Here are 5 pics of this trans.
Again, I would like to know more about these. Gear ratios too.

thanks!
Steve Barcak www.pontiacheaven.org
"Real Pontiacs only...no corporate nonsense!"

[Poncho60]

From what little I know, at least 57-60----all models used the same trans. Pontiac didn't get "smart?" until 1961 when they went to the two different trans types. In 60 they had I believe three different "duty" versions----std, for the 420E, and HD. Pittsburgh 64 will probably chime in with specifics---he just put the 60 HD governor in his 64 super hydro. Low gear is a nasty 3.87 (3.89?)----I'm sure someone else will come up with the other gear ratios.

[PITTSBURGH 64]

Thanks for the photos and the info Steve.

The gear ratios are first 3.97 (462 will stall at 2000)/second 2.55 /third 1.55/ 1.00. The trans only stalls/slips in first the rest of the speeds are direct like a stick but with freewheeling.

I was following your trip.

[Bill Eveland]

How do you tell the differance between the 3 transmissions than? I'm sure the " slim jim" got it's name for a reason. And does the super hydro only come in that long tailshaft version? Also what about throttle input? Does it use a downshift cable or what?

[Steve Barcak]

3.97 first gear?! YOWSA! That is a gear! My goodness! Now I want to get one of my Bonnevilles or Star Cheifs in my yard running to test drive it.
Who would need an OD? Just use the 2.56 most came with.

Bill- I have several slim jims trans already out of cars here at Pontiac Heaven. I will take some pics for you and post them here soon.

Steve Barcak www.pontiacheaven.org

"Real Pontiacs only...no corporate nonsense!"

[Bill Eveland]

Thanks Steve.
I was thinking either a 3:50 or 3:90 gear in the rear , that would make for a good launch. I remember Len Sokol talking about having a low gear in his dual quad 56 and how fast it would take off the line. And my friends 56 also has a hydrostick and low gear and it really takes off the line as well. Wouldn't really have to worry about a high stall converter for that type of gear multiplication LOL. Although Pontiac Jack has raised the stall on his Dual Range by shortening the vanes or whatever he did on his.

[PITTSBURGH 64]

Steve,
Just put the selector in L and let it rip. It will shift on its own between 4000 to 5000.

You can see in this old video that my set-up has no trouble taking off with a 2.56 posi and this is with a 041 cam!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LeI9ge_PUs

I changed the governor today to a 1960 389 Tri-Power governor that should hold the shifts longer. With the old governor (video) my 1st to 2nd is at 4000 and second to third is at 5000. Not the best for a 041 cammed 462.
I want to let the new parts get acquainted before tromping on it. My dad taught me to let new parts ware-in for a few hundred miles before pushing them to the limit. I don't know if its a wives tail or not but it's a habit.
I'll make another video tomorrow.

Bill here's what I came up with when planning my set up.
M-20 2.52 X 4.11 = 10.35
Hydro 3.97 X 2.56 = 10.16