[MOJO Catalina]

Originally Posted by Engine-Ear

pull out the whole interior and replace missing floor with generic tin; I would also leave the doors.

.. I blame the carb at this moment. Swap in a known-good one ... Also, these engines will start even setting the timing to 0 deg ("straight up"). If you have a known-good distributor, I would sub that in, too.

Thanks for the input. We're on the same page for sure...

The thing about the doors on the driver's side is that they are rotted at the under side sill part so the outer skin has come apart from the inner box. Not too bad on the passenger side.. I suppose I could have a "bridge" piece welded in on the under side... Foot well for the third seat is gonzo.. years of having the tailgate window open...





Must have had the rear passenger door window down too. Seat hinge and floor under it are bye-bye..





See guys? Not as much to covet here as you (or I) originally thought...

I don't care though.. I have enough '60 parts around here to make it run and stop.. Rivets are cheap too. A buddy of mine is a welder and another guy I know is in the heating and air biz so I'll raid his galvanized pile for some flooring...

Keep the good advice and encouragement coming.. I appreciate it very much.

[60 SHARK]

YOUR GETTING TO SPEND WAY MORE TIME ON YOURS THAN I ON MINE, SOUNDS LIKE YOUR REALLY IN TO IT. I RE NEWED THE WIRES IN MY TAILGATE ALSO, THEY GOT PINCHED AT THE BUMPER. THIS DIAGRAM WILL HELP IF YOU START THE JOB ONE DAY AND CANT GET BACK TO IT FOR A FEW DAYS. L O L .DONT FORGET TO REBUILD THE SAFETY SWITCH IN THE JAMB, IT CAN DRIVE YOU SILLY LOOKING FOR A OPEN WIRE IF ITS NOT FUNCTONING.

[MOJO Catalina]

Thanks for the schematic.. Yeah, the bumper did it's thing but whatever plastic/rubber product they used to wrap these wires in wasn't really meant to last 50+ years I guess...

I always go like gangbusters on a project like this for the first month and hope to get it at least running and stopping... It blows their minds at the auto parts store when I pull up in what they call "Another Dead Fish" that's draggin' a tree branch and the exhaust pipe... They'll flip over this wagon, especially when I show up with a giant guitar on the roof!

[Engine-Ear]

...I was wondering what you meant in your video about "wait till they see what I put on the roof"... Now I know!

[MOJO Catalina]

I see wagons with surf boards on the roof all the time..
Mine will have a "Surf Guitar."

When I first got my Catalina I was searching the web for photos and found the old postcard of the '60 Safari with the Giant Fish on the roof.

Come to think of it, I found this board that same day..

OK, back on the topic... Last night I took off all the rockers and see at least 7 of the are worn at the contact point, 4 pretty badly.. Looks like where they contact the valves is pitted on some and worn to distortion on others. I slid the pushrods up and they hung in place due to the sludge so I tried to get a lifter out.. Well, there's a mushroom cap of crud on each one that's so thick that they won't come out! I'm sure I can get them out with some scrapping or some other means but should I bother at this point? It appears they travel up and down far enough to function..

What's anybody say? Clean the loose stuff off, relube the lifters, put it all back together and try to get it going?

I'm keeping everything in order but this rocker/valve contact wear is eating me..
Anybody ever "tuned up" this contact point while the valve was still in the head and on the car?

And another question... Are the heads on the A1 engine the same as the ones on the A2?
Is it different pistons that make the economy engine or is it the head chambers?

[MOJO Catalina]

The Best and Worst of the rockers.. All have noticeable wear... One is worn comepletely through.. I have a couple of engines I can pull better ones from so I won't be putting the real bad ones back on..

[Engine-Ear]

Originally Posted by MOJO Catalina

The Best and Worst of the rockers.. All have noticeable wear... One is worn comepletely through.. I have a couple of engines I can pull better ones from so I won't be putting the real bad ones back on..

OMG! I am thinking that this engine is toast...looks like the stud oiling passages are blocked in some cases. Keep in mind that replacement rockers (& related) that don't get lubed are heading for the same fate.

[MOJO Catalina]

Stud oiled rockers 'eh? Well, I guess they're plugged pretty good because I had to pry at least half of them off with a claw hammer and the others I had to twist around back and forth a few times to get them off. (yeah yeah, that's what she said...)

[CATBIRD]

MOJO.....dished pistons reduced the compression from 10.25 (standard) to 8.6 on the 425E engine. Smaller combustion chamber on the 425A raised it to 10.75......John

[Bill Hanlon]

These early Pontiac V8s pumped oil from the lifters up through the push rods to lubricate the interface between the top of the pushrod and the rocker arm, but unlike later engines there is no hole in the rocker arm for the oil to go through and lubricate the rest of the rocker arm and valve. To get that lubrication Pontiac passed oil through the #2 and #4 cam journals and up through the block to a gallery in each head. The bottom of the rocker studs is in that gallery. The rocker studs have a small hole bored up the center of the stud most of the way to the top. In the area behind the rocker ball another small hole joins the one in the center. Pressurized oil passes from the gallery up through the studs and out into the area between the stud and rocker ball. It lubes the rocker ball to rocker arm interface and dribbles out the valve end of the rocker, lubing the rocker to valve stem interface and the valve. Pictures here in the GMC truck maintenance manual.
http://chevy.oldcarmanualproject.com...5559mm435.html
GMC trucks from 55 through 59 used Pontiac V8s.

[MOJO Catalina]

Originally Posted by CATBIRD

dished pistons reduced the compression from 10.25 (standard) to 8.6 on the 425E engine.

OK so same heads and manifolds... That's great!
Thanks..

And believe me, I'm not blaming this engine for not holding up. Condition of everthing else (wear on seats, pedals etc...) suggests at least 184,000.. Even with the Pontiac oiling issues this engine most certainly was not maintained properly and I'm amazed that it even turns at all.

I'm hoping that all the damage to it is up top and that, as Russ suggested, the oil slapping around in the bottom kept everything down there in much better condition..

What I'm thinking now is to go a bit further and pull the heads off to check the cylinder walls for wear.

If they seem OK, I could leave the short block in and put the top end w/lifters and poshrods from the rebuilt A1 engine on it, thereby keeping my 8.6 compression. The VIN Number and code on the block will still match the car and I won't have to take the front end apart to haul this beast out..

Of course if things look bad when the heads come off I'll have to go to plan C, which is to pull it out and drop the entire A1 in there.. If I have to resort to that, at least this engine will be about 250 pounds lighter with no heads or manifolds...

[1967Tempest]

Originally Posted by MOJO Catalina

Stud oiled rockers 'eh? Well, I guess they're plugged pretty good because I had to pry at least half of them off with a claw hammer and the others I had to twist around back and forth a few times to get them off. (yeah yeah, that's what she said...)

First off, love the wagon!!!!

I love trying to start older engines. If I see one, I will try very hard to get her started. I just think it is cool. My brother and I have restarted many old engines. Kinda fun!!!

What I would do first, before pulling the heads, is drain he oil and put fresh stuff in. 3 quarts of oil and 2 quarts of Marvel Mystery Oil. Using an oil priming tool and a stout ELECTRIC (battery wont hold up) drill, prime the engine for awhile.

Since you have the rockers off, you can see if you have a stuck valve. But usually, if it still has a spring in good shape, it is only stuck for one rev.

It would be cool to hear it roar!!! I hate pulling heads, you soon end up in a "Might-As-Well" scenario.

HTH,
Keep us posted,
Dave

[MOJO Catalina]

In the past I've had great success getting these old engines running so long as they spin.. This one's the toughest yet but I'll clean it all up and do what I can before reading it the last rites..

[MOJO Catalina]

Fowl weather here so I've been pinching photos from around the web.
Here are some of my favorites... My wagon in the brochure:

[MOJO Catalina]

And a few more..
Gotta love those Canadian 2 door wagons...
Maybe some day I'll get a couple of sedan doors and convert mine..

Artist's rendering of the wagon they should have made:

[MOJO Catalina]

..And these...
What a cool rig this is:

[Racer81x]

Originally Posted by MOJO Catalina

..And these...
What a cool rig this is:

The bottom right pic of the primer wagon with flames is only 25 miles north of me, not as nice as it looks in the pic, another guy had it for sale about 40 miles away and we passed on it, but at least it got a new home.

[MOJO Catalina]

Amazes me how forgiving photos from 10 feet away can be.. Actually, that looks like gloss paint on there.. I thought it was interesting because you don't see many flamejobs on '60 Pontiacs..

[61 vent]

I wonder what class big bruiser ran in? That just looks like a whole lotta fun.

[61 vent]

That Canadian wagon is pretty cool, looks great with the 8 lugs, that is my type of car-toon