[grivera]

This summer I was given a 69 Lemans Convertible 350, TH4000 with numbers matching engine and drivetrain. It needs minor mechanical work but major body work. That is front and rear floor pans need patching, driver's side fender needs replacement, needs full trunk pan, and every other body panel needs some level of rust repair. The frame looks solid from what I can see and the body mounts look like replacements. A friend is gonna eventually sell me a decent driver's side fender off his GTO and I already acquired a mint trunk lid. The mechanical side is no issue but bodywork is a skill I haven't gained yet.

I do have a Hobart 140 mig welder and have only done spot welding with it - not a whole lot. Since I have two other nice drivable Pontiacs, the wait isn't a big deal. My thought process is I can gain some mig welding skill patching the floor pans first, then onto the trunk pan. Then I would like to tackle the body panels.

The plan is to make it roadworthy, patch the floor pans and then slow walk the rest of the body work. Should a novice even attempt this type of thing or best left to the pros? Seems pricing on bodywork would be more than the value of the completed car. I welcome all thoughts and comments on this- especially from any similarly unskilled folks out there who have attempted this type level of work.

[grivera]

More pics

[grivera]

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[b-man]

Life is short.

Personally I’d pay a competent shop to do the floors and trunk. Then you’d have a solid driving project.

Body repairs might be something you could learn on as you go, but they’re kinda optional. Making the car perfect is gonna be a lot of work and then you always worry about every scratch or ding, be careful before you get too deep. You’re opening a huge can of worms as soon as you start cutting into that rust that’s all over that car, there’s 10 times more rust underneath that you can’t see.

Personally I’d stop scrutinizing it and just drive it as is after the floors and trunk are fixed. If the car is still structurally sound then maybe just patching some areas of the floors and trunk using POR-15 and fiberglass cloth would be fine.

You got the car for free right? So spending some money at a shop to make it solid shouldn’t really bother you.

If you really truly want a nice solid ‘69 convertible then sell this one and buy a western/southern one that’s not riddled with rust bubbling. Far cheaper and faster in the timeline of life to just buy a better car to begin with.

[Greg Reid]

I can't really advise you on what you should do as everyone is different. Bart makes a great point. It took 10 years of my life, including interruptions, to do mine. So, even age is a factor. One thing I've learned is that time is worth a lot more than money.
With that said...
I had never done any bodywork or welding when I tackled mine but I learned. Replaced a lot of the roof and quarters, trunk pan and many more small patches. I made plenty of mistakes that I won't make on the next one but I was able to work my way through them.
My thinking was, "The worst that can happen is that I'll eff it up and guess what?... It's already effed up!"... and when I finish, I'll have a welder.
Nine years later and no shabby bodywork or rust is popping through and it still looks good. The only person that's ever touched this car in 19 years of ownership other than myself is the guy that sprayed the color and glued the vinyl top on...and I was actually there with him doing that!
But I'm a bit of a control freak when it comes to this kind of stuff. I like knowing exactly what's been done and how.

Sent from my moto g stylus (2021) using Tapatalk

[grivera]

Great points, Bart!

That's a beautiful ride, Greg - you should be very proud of the work. And good to know you were a novice welder when you started!

[tjs72lemans]

I'm with Greg on this one. You already have a welder. Floor pans are a good place to start as no one else sees them and it gives you a strong foundation. Trunk pan may be more work, but, again now you've got some experience using it. I'm no welder or body man, but over the years I learned this stuff as I progressed. I actually accomplished two frame off restorations all by myself, including paint. My 55 Chevy is 10 years since finished and still looks like when I finished it. It's harder every day to find someone to do this stuff for you and reasonably. Doing it yourself allows you time to progress at your pace and as funds allow. Once it's drivable and solid, you can pick away at the body.
Last month they both got a trophy at a car show again. Sorry for the sideway pic.

[misterp266]

Age is definitely a factor. Cars take way more time to complete than you ever realize. Personal enjoyment also comes into play. Working on my project is enjoyable and yes, sometimes challenging. I also have a Hobart 140 that I haven’t even used yet but I’m going to try to do some patchwork myself. There’s a good chance that I’ll never complete my car but I’ll do the best I can. The older I get, the less I get done. I do not plan to make it pretty on the outside, just mechanically 100%. To me, with the cost to have anyone do work on your car these days that knows what they’re doing is just too high. I say do it yourself or buy a car that’s done already. There’s plenty of people on here to help you out too.
Just my


Turned the pic . . . .

[Greg Reid]

By the way, there's no way I could have experienced the amount of success I did on my project without this forum and some great members who really know what they're talking about. I learn something every day here.

[grivera]

Greg - would you do it all over again?

[Greg Reid]

Yes, especially if the ten years came back with the deal!...lol
I've always been a tinkerer though. I loved doing it. I would do some things differently however.
I guess that the best way to answer that though is that I have another project car here that needs about the same amount of work.

[MUSLCAH]

I’d look for another body ....why waste your time ,with something that someone already stuffed with filler.

Like noted above....get something from Colorado, Idaho, Texas, California if need be. But look them over good. Just because they are in that state ,doesn’t mean it’s always been there..

I bet on a quiet day....you can hear that car rust.

Run Forrest Run

[mrennie]

CAN you do it? It depends on how persistent you are, what kind of results you are expecting, and if you have the $$$ and time to actually get it back together after you start cutting.

SHOULD you do it? That is a really tough question only you can answer. If you lose interest quick when things go wrong, then this is not a good project for you. Based on the pictures, I predict there will be much more metal work than you expect once you start stripping to bare metal.

Your welder will be fine for body panels, that is one plus.

Financially, it will probably not make sense to farm all the work out, so I think you need to decide what level of restoration you want and either pass (and drive it as-is or sell it), or sink the $ into it and do some or most of it yourself.

If you want do it yourself and enjoy learning new skills (and have the aptitude to learn from reading or watching videos), you may surprise yourself. Expect to spend twice what you think it will cost and take twice as long to get it completed, as there are so many unexpected problems that pop up with rusty cars.

Are you still working or retired? This will make a HUGE difference on how long this could take. If you are able to spend 20-30 hours a week on the project, you could have the metal work done in a few months. If you are only able to work on weekends, this will slow things down considerably and will result in lots of lost time getting back to where you were when you pick up where you left off.

I am a hobbiest with no formal body work or paint training. My day job was a telecom tech and now management. I have a mechanical aptitude but am very fortunate to be able to see something being done or read how to do something and then go try it and make it work out the majority of the time. I had never touched a paint gun before and my welding experience was "hobbiest average", based on one semester of Grade 10 welding class. Over years of working on this car I have learnt how to successfully butt weld panels, use a hammer and dolly, block sand, handle a paint gun, cut and buff, etc. This required hundreds and hundreds of hours of reading & watching videos to get a grasp on how to do things, and even then I made a TON of very costly mistakes and spent $$$ to get to this point. Which is all to say, a hobbiest can pull this off with the right tools, time, money, and mindset.

One thing for sure, it is MUCH easier to take it apart than it is to put back together. It takes serious perseverance and stubbornness to keep going when things go wrong or are worse than expected.

[grivera]

Thanks for the well thought out response and beautiful work!!. I don’t want a body off type resto car but also don’t want hidden issues that don’t get addressed. I do pick up skills pretty quickly and I always see projects through- that is a curse many times due to my stubbornness. I love projects and the feeling of repairing something that doesn’t work - in fact I enjoy that phase as much as driving these cars. I don’t like paying for something I know I can do better - while that doesn’t apply in this case the extent of the work would be very expensive. And it is difficult to find someone local to do this at a reasonable cost and the thought of a long distance project doesn’t appeal to me one bit for obvious reasons. I’m hoping that patching the floor pans serve as a barometer of what I will be willing to endure. As far as time is concerned I can retire anytime I want and I plan to work a second career. That in itself may help pay for some of the work assuming I find a reputable shop. The floor pans are a must so that I can at least have a functional interior and ability to drive the car.

[Sirrotica]

Will, we all started with little, to no skills, and the way you learn is to do. If you have the garage space, materials, and tools that you can afford to tie up for awhile, then you can commit to giving it a try.

I might suggest you strip the car to bare metal, then assess how much metal, and how much rust is under the paint/filler. Myself I'd strip the car before you even fix the floor, and trunk, no sense even starting the bottom restoration before you know what is hidden under the paint. After you see what work is ahead then make a decision if you want to farm it out, or attempt it yourself. If it's stripped you could even get accurate estimates to do the work. It's damn near impossible to give a body estimate without seeing the bare metal bones of the car.

When they strip the body is when the price jumps up to much more that was figured without seeing whats under it. Everyone gets mad, the body shop stops working on it because the little guy only budgeted the estimate amount, and he has to save up more money on it, and it's taking up valuable space at the body shop in the mean time. The body shop management is disgusted, and the owner is too.

That's how I'd suggest ascertaining which way you should go, and that's from real world experience. I'm no body man, but when I was in my late teens I did all the grunt work for a neighbor that ran a body shop out of his parents house. Over the years I've known many, many, body men so I knew people I could have do passable body work on my own cars. I'm not good at body work, but I can tell hack work, over good work.

There's going to be a huge sacrifice of spare time if you do it yourself, and if you want to have it done timely, it will be like working 2, 40 hour jobs. If you want to get it done at a slower pace than you can spend less time per week on it. When a project languishes is when people stop working on them, and they get sold for pennies on a dollar to someone else. It's hard dirty work so expect it, more frustration, than fun. If you're not a quitter, you can accomplish it. You'll also avoid body shop jail if you do most/all the work.

If you have a Vo Tech handy, take some night classes in auto body, and possibly welding, learn some basics. Getting your feet wet at a Vo tech may also give you some perspective of whether to farm out the work, or attempt it yourself.

Hopefully some of this is helpful to making an informed decision.

[grivera]

Thanks- all great advice!!

[mrennie]

Hi Will,

Based on your "self assessment", I think you can do it, and your expectations sound reasonable.

My advice would be to focus on the floor and trunk only (to start), this will allow you to practice where a few boo boos won't be seen, and get a good idea how bad things are. If you feel the rest is too much after that, you haven't gone in too deep requiring full paint and body.

I appreciate the desire to "save" a car. As long as you have no illusions on breaking even financially, do what you think it right and reasonably achievable. The car was free, so you have some advantage there.

[OCMDGTO]

How about fix the floors and trunk and drive it? This free car might turn into your most expensive car. Maybe let a local Vo-tech do body and paint?

[b-man]

Drive it.

Don’t turn it into a years-long project, get the floors done and be happy with it.

Again if you really want a nice ‘69 ragtop sell this one and use the funds to finance a good car that’s not rotten.

Don’t keep it or feel obligated to carry on with a restoration just because your neighbor gave it to you and would enjoy seeing what he couldn’t do himself come to fruition.

[mrennie]

Originally Posted by b-man

Don’t keep it or feel obligated to carry on with a restoration just because your neighbor gave it to you and would enjoy seeing what he couldn’t do himself come to fruition.

So true. I know I would feel underlying pressure about that.