[HWYSTR455]

I must have encountered an anomaly then, because pretty sure I posted pics about the problem. I even lapped the fulcrums in the rockers, pretty sure I posted pics of the contact patterns, they were def an issue.

But who knows, could have been a fluke or a particular run of them that gave them a bad rap, not sure.

I had the same issue on the Olds ones I used too.


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[78w72]

Yeah hard to say what would cause a problem on these when so many dont have any issues. Ive seen posts/pics about blueing from heat, I have well over 100k miles on mine & tons of abuse in a previous 455 I beat the crap out of for 10+ years in my younger days, I saved them for a future build that are now on a 406 with similar size cam, they looked like the day I bought them when I removed from the 455 and show no signs of any problems when I removed the valve covers a couple times on the current engine they've been on for 15+ years. Never lapped them or did anything special.

The used set I bought for another engine I have didnt even keep the balls matched to the rockers, just a thrown in a box very dirty from previous owner, cleaned them up & matched the balls the best I could visually... no signs of problems with those either or the ones I know of that friends use or have used in the past on pontiacs & sbc's.

Just wanted to mention my positive experience with them and the fact that most everything aftermarket can & does have a small amount of issues, could be a bad batch or defects or even user error?

[HWYSTR455]

Can you pop a rocker and take a shot of the cup and fulcrum?


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[78w72]

Originally Posted by HWYSTR455

Can you pop a rocker and take a shot of the cup and fulcrum?


.

Not anytime soon, I prefer not to remove parts that are working good, plus its the middle of winter here & my cars are put away till spring. I plan to change the original studs to 7/16 sometime soon so will take pics if/when I do that.

But until then, heres a few used sets for sale on ebay with close up pics, no signs of the problems some have mentioned...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/16697705818...0&gad_source=1

https://www.ebay.com/itm/12684982980...temCondition=4

https://www.ebay.com/itm/17655954116...temCondition=4

[HWYSTR455]

No worries, was just curious.

Yeah, those pics on eGay look like they've been sitting out for a long time, pitted, and not enough wear to see if they were fully seated/lapped in.

There was something about the slots too, where they had issues over X lift, but don't recall at the moment.

Generally, IMO, they are for budget, low-po type builds, I just avoid them. I tried a couple lo-po builds and just seems like a waste of time and money. If I'm going to do it, I just go all in to some degree.

Maybe they work for some, not saying they don't just I personally had issues on a couple occasions. I just can't recommend them with good heart.


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[steve25]

Has any one ever checked the average ratio. Of these aftermarket roller tip rockers?

Is the tolerance tighter then the factory rockers?

I have seen the factory stamped steel rockers go from 1.46 to 1.55 in ratio variations.

In terms of a factory cam of .414” at the valve with a perfect 1.5 ratio rocker I have seen factory rockers decrease lift from .025” to adding .014” lift.

[78w72]

Originally Posted by HWYSTR455

No worries, was just curious.

Yeah, those pics on eGay look like they've been sitting out for a long time, pitted, and not enough wear to see if they were fully seated/lapped in.

There was something about the slots too, where they had issues over X lift, but don't recall at the moment.

Generally, IMO, they are for budget, low-po type builds, I just avoid them. I tried a couple lo-po builds and just seems like a waste of time and money. If I'm going to do it, I just go all in to some degree.

Maybe they work for some, not saying they don't just I personally had issues on a couple occasions. I just can't recommend them with good heart.
.

I didnt notice any actual pitting, just some light surface rust on one of the sets but they are bad pics so hard to see detail. Everyone has their own experiences with things like this, I believe that you had some issues on a couple occasions for whatever reasons and your opinion is based on that...

However just the same Im reporting my experience with 2 current sets in use that are 20-30+ years old and its 100% positive, mine were purchased in the early 90's so maybe they had a bad batch later? Also positive for at least 3 other sets I know of in use on different motors. So take it for what its worth, a few bad experiences out of hundreds of thousands of these without problems doesnt really justify labeling them crappy or only for lo-po budget builds....

My previous 455 was not lo-po or budget, probably 425+hp & 500+tq in a TA that was driven daily for 100k miles and raced & abused almost daily/nightly for 10+ years ran at much higher rpms than it probably should have, then after all that they were used on my current 406 W72 for 15+ years that isnt abused as much but still sees lots of harder street use & some drag strip time. Other friends cars have seen as much or more abuse over the years with them too.

Based on that I can & do recommend them with good heart, plus not everyone on here or out there "goes all in" on builds with 535 700hp engines, this is the street section & they are perfectly fine for stock to mild engines IMO & experience.

As for ratio, ive never checked them but comp states they are a true 1.52 and they are clearly built better with thicker metal than stock stamped rockers.

[grivera]

Originally Posted by 78w72

Just an FYI based on my experience with the 1.52 Comp roller tip rockers as well as a few friends I know that use them on other engines... they are definitely not "crappy", I have been using a set for 30+ years on 2 different engines with cams that are bigger lift & heavier springs than stock, there are no signs of any of the problems that have been mentioned... no blue color from heat, no problems with the grooved balls or roller tips, nothing at all in 30+ years of very hard use & countless 5500-6000 rpms runs, more abuse than most average street engines will see.

Ive read a few posts about some guys not liking them, but just like anything there are a small percentage of problems with almost any aftermarket part, even heard of H/S rockers having issues & needing to be rebuilt, no way to know how those rockers were treated to have problems, but for mine & others I know of they are quality parts that have worked great under abuse for over 3 decades.

I have another set I bought used on a stock cam pontiac engine for 15+ years, those also had/have no signs of any problems at all, these are all set up with adjustable lock nuts, proper lash & good geometry. If you want to use them dont let a handful of bad comments steer you away when theres probably 100k or more of them in use for decades working perfectly fine.

I have a set on my Firebird’s engine, now on a stand. They came with the car and I reused them when I rebuilt the engine. No issues or discoloration. I know there are documented issues with these rockers but assume it’s limited cause I don’t hear much about it outside of Pontiac applications. Typically when any product has problems the negative feedback is magnified ten-fold and much of it is circular reporting. Good experiences don’t necessarily get reported.

[78w72]

Originally Posted by grivera

I have a set on my Firebird’s engine, now on a stand. They came with the car and I reused them when I rebuilt the engine. No issues or discoloration. I know there are documented issues with these rockers but assume it’s limited cause I don’t hear much about it outside of Pontiac applications. Typically when any product has problems the negative feedback is magnified ten-fold and much of it is circular reporting. Good experiences don’t necessarily get reported.

Exactly my point.

These rockers are quality parts made by/for a well known company. There may be a small handful of bad experiences here or there that may or may not be related to the actual product vs other reasons... but reading reviews on summit, jegs & amazon or other forums for different makes that have a lot more in use than pontiacs, they are almost all 5 out of 5 stars positive.

[HWYSTR455]

Try a google search: comp cam magnum roller tip rockers issues and problems

No, it's not just Pontiacs that have issues, and one instance for me was on an Olds.

But, if they are working for others, glad to hear, I don't 'like' hearing about failures. It gives the hobby as a whole a bad rap.

Considering the amount of others that have had issues though, I suggest keeping an eye on ones in use.

The HS rockers are really not that much more money, and have a much better track record. I would think if buying new, one would try to avoid the potential risk(s).



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[grivera]

No argument there, but the amount of issues seems low vs the number of units sold. And lots of circular reporting, even from folks here who don’t have direct experience but steer folks away from parts based on what others have reported. Just like Holley Sniper - lots of folks have issues but vs how many sold?
I only used the roller tips in my bird’s original engine cause at the time, I hadn’t heard about problems and they were already on the engine. My other engines have HS.

[Dragncar]

I would stay far away from those Comp roller tip POS. They are known for getting hot.
Just spend a few more bucks and find a decent set of Harland Sharp real roller rockers and be done with it. Or some other decent USA roller rocker.
I picked up a nice set of HS 1.5 rockers for under 300$ awhile back.

[Kenth]

I built the 462 for my Judge in year 2000 using CompCams Magnum 1.52 roller tip rockers, ran some bracket racing for four years and lot of summer street driving since.
No problems whatsoever, still rocking.

FWIW

[Holeshot71]

Have to wonder if some of the situations where the rockers did turn blue were due to not having the valve train set up correctly. Like the wrong springs, too high spring pressures, coil bind etc.. Then again I have a set with blue fulcrums that were on a motor that had weak springs. The motor would barely rev past 4K. The valve train was also really noisy cold but would quiet down once warmed up...

[Formulas]

Originally Posted by Holeshot71

Have to wonder if some of the situations where the rockers did turn blue were due to not having the valve train set up correctly. Like the wrong springs, too high spring pressures, coil bind etc.. Then again I have a set with blue fulcrums that were on a motor that had weak springs. The motor would barely rev past 4K. The valve train was also really noisy cold but would quiet down once warmed up...

Really noisy valvetrain and blue rockers ...

For whatever reason you had an oil supply problem caused by who knows what and where at this point in time..

Blue rockers were the result not the root of that situation


Its also my belief that the oil dripper system employed on many Pontiacs should be retained on any ball fulcrum rocker assembly, ... Pontiac didnt encorporate those for asthetics whether they were spot welded on valve cover or bolted to the head

[78w72]

"The HS rockers are really not that much more money"

New Comp roller tip- $206. New H/S rockers- $437. Over twice as much...

Used H/S rockers- $300. Used comp roller tips- $85.

Number of comp roller tips with heat/bluing on here, 3, 4, maybe 10. Google search lets say 100...vs in use for decades, 100k+ = .001%. :

[67Lemons]

Originally Posted by 78w72

"The HS rockers are really not that much more money"

New Comp roller tip- $206. New H/S rockers- $437. Over twice as much...

Used H/S rockers- $300. Used comp roller tips- $85.

Number of comp roller tips with heat/bluing on here, 3, 4, maybe 10. Google search lets say 100...vs in use for decades, 100k+ = .001%. :

Exactly, the jump up to a set of Harland Sharps is a pretty big jump, also I haven’t seen any used quality HS style rockers for sale used in a long while, at least 1.65’s

[lust4speed]

Well, I've removed and thrown away four sets of the Comp roller tip rockers over the years. Never know, in the future I might finally find a pair that work okay.

I'll add that for whatever reason I've never seen a cooked stock rocker assembly and I'm hard pressed to not blame the roller tip rockers for their own demise.

[Formulajones]

I'm in that camp as well and to be honest, with the issues they've had there is really no reason for me to revisit that deal again even if they actually did fix the issues with them, which they've been made aware of all the way back in the 80's when I was dealing with it. Either run a stock rocker arm, or if you want a roller step up to a real rocker and be done with it. Put something of known good quality in the engine.

You guys building these engines just gotta stop trying to save a buck, put good stuff in it and close the book on it.

[Baba O'Riley]

So -- I got all the rocker hardware out on the 2-4-6-8 side today, including the one where it keeps throwing rockers. The studs all came out fine, though the one at the trouble spot (#6 front) and the one just forward of that (#4 rear) were a fair amount harder to get loose. But they both pulled without breaking. (FWIW I did notice at the beginning that those two rockers sit slightly higher than the others. The pushrods are all the same length, no variance there.)

So I cleaned Trouble Stud real good then put it on a vise and, watching it with a magnifying glass, tried to bend the lower thread, the shank, and the upper thread with locking pliers, to see if that stud is broken anywhere. Negative. No sign of any fractures.

The ARP hardware arrives today, I'll put that in and get a guy over here who is good with valves, lash, etc. to help me align things right.