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  #41  
Old 03-13-2016, 06:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Will View Post
This is BS.

Any brand name oil is fine. Heck, the parts store brands are fine too. The important thing is to change it and the filter regularly and make sure the PCV is functioning properly.

My Formula had 130K on it when I tore the engine down, and I really shouldn't have done that because it was running fine other than it would puff a tiny bit of blue smoke if you jumped on it from a roll. But, I was a dumb kid and that's what dumb kids do.

That car had never had anything but Pennzoil in it, and it was changed religiously every 3000 miles. Engine was clean as a whistle inside, just the barest film of varnish. Bearings were all perfect, just a small ridge at the top of the cylinders.

My daily driver is currently a '97 Honda beater with 175K on it. I put whatever oil is cheapest in it and change it every 4K - 5K miles. I'm not planning to own this car for more than 2-3 years, at which point it will probably have another 40-60K on it. All it has to do is keep running, and I'm sure it will.
im not a chemical engineer, but I have torn apart countless engines over the last 40 years and I can tell you that back in the 70's and 80's when engines were plentiful if it was just a run of the mill 400 I would look at the oil sticker and if they were running Pennzoil I would pass on it because every time I took one apart that was running Pennzoil it was always full of sludge and carbon build up. this includes cars that I bought from the owners and they would tell me that they had run Pennzoil its whole life and changed it regularly.
no science here just a whole lot of personal experience.

  #42  
Old 03-14-2016, 08:57 AM
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I use Mobil 1 5W30 and a Wix filter in my 2008 GMC Sierra Denali.

I've sold all my classic Pontiacs, but when I did own them (all were equipped with flat-tappet camshafts) I ran Mobil 1 5W30, Wix filters and a pint of GM EOS for the added ZDDP. NEVER experienced any internal engine issues whatsoever.

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  #43  
Old 03-14-2016, 07:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Jones View Post
I'm a member over on BITOG and visit regularly.
I'm a member on a Toyota (Highlander) and a Ford truck (F150) forum.
You can read and read and research and research oil until the cows come home and the bottom line is, if you use the correct grade oil and change it like recommended for your situation your car will run probably longer than you're going to want to drive it. Brand really doesn't matter as long as it meets the mfg's requirements. Filter? As long as it's changed as required, what brand probably doesn't matter there either.


There is a difference, believe me. As mentioned I have a cutter and have been slicing open filters on my own cars and other peoples. I'll see if I can remember to get some pics tonight and post them. Some of the filters are more difficult to slice open like the Bosch and Mobil 1...thicker cases. Some of the no name filters I cut open actually had broken pleats so the oil was passing without being filtered! The three best filters are: Mobil 1, K&N, Bosch. I haven't had a WIX to cut open yet.

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  #44  
Old 03-14-2016, 10:14 PM
U47 U47 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muscle_collector View Post
im not a chemical engineer, but I have torn apart countless engines over the last 40 years and I can tell you that back in the 70's and 80's when engines were plentiful if it was just a run of the mill 400 I would look at the oil sticker and if they were running Pennzoil I would pass on it because every time I took one apart that was running Pennzoil it was always full of sludge and carbon build up. this includes cars that I bought from the owners and they would tell me that they had run Pennzoil its whole life and changed it regularly.
no science here just a whole lot of personal experience.
It's not just Pennzoil. It's any oil which is based on Pennsylvania crude. In college we did a experiment on a engine that just had it's Pennzoil changed with new Pennzoil. The car was driven ten miles to circulate everything up and then the oil was dropped into a large glass beaker and allowed to stand overnight. The same experiment was done on a similar car except this car had been using Castrol.
The next day it was obvious. The Pennzoil oil had separated, about 50% honey on top and 50% dark on the bottom half.
The Castrol on the other hand had darker oil, but what was more important the darker stayed suspended in the oil with no separation.

  #45  
Old 03-15-2016, 12:36 AM
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Default Filters

Here's some pics of some oil filters I cut open. I wish I could remember what car that Penn. oil filter came off of. Holy crap! Take notice the Amsoil filter, even the bypass has a screen, pretty neat. That orange filter is from 1994 so they have been crap for over 20 years.
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  #46  
Old 03-15-2016, 08:16 AM
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The Pennsoil filter didn't do a regular cycle. Or there was some other issue. I'd bet money. That filter doesn't look like that from being inexpensive.

The others? Not enough difference to make a difference in actual function.

Change the oil, per mfg recommendation, change the filter per mfg recommendation using whatever is out there and most of us will tire of the car before it wears out.

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  #47  
Old 03-15-2016, 06:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Jones View Post
The Pennsoil filter didn't do a regular cycle. Or there was some other issue. I'd bet money. That filter doesn't look like that from being inexpensive.

The others? Not enough difference to make a difference in actual function.

Change the oil, per mfg recommendation, change the filter per mfg recommendation using whatever is out there and most of us will tire of the car before it wears out.
Possibly for most but I still have my 65 Standard European Beetle I bought in 1968 and my 69 355 H-O Le Mans I ordered new in November 68.
http://www.pismoderelicts.com/photog...7_edited_1.jpg
http://www.pismoderelicts.com/photog...s/p1020752.jpg
http://www.pismoderelicts.com/photog...s/p1020753.jpg

  #48  
Old 03-19-2016, 11:17 PM
59safaricat 59safaricat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muscle_collector View Post
but I have torn apart countless engines over the last 40 years and I can tell you that back in the 70's and 80's when engines were plentiful if it was just a run of the mill 400 I would look at the oil sticker and if they were running Pennzoil I would pass on it because every time I took one apart that was running Pennzoil it was always full of sludge and carbon build up.
Heard that from several older techs that worked in the automotive field during the 60's/70's/80's. All of them claimed Pennzoil used large quantities of paraffin in their stock. Can't confirm or deny that since it was long before my time, but my grandfather strictly used Pennzoil in my' 59, religiously changed it every 3K miles, and it was sludged over pretty bad under the valve covers and valley pan.

  #49  
Old 03-20-2016, 06:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muscle_collector View Post
im not a chemical engineer, but I have torn apart countless engines over the last 40 years and I can tell you that back in the 70's and 80's when engines were plentiful if it was just a run of the mill 400 I would look at the oil sticker and if they were running Pennzoil I would pass on it because every time I took one apart that was running Pennzoil it was always full of sludge and carbon build up. this includes cars that I bought from the owners and they would tell me that they had run Pennzoil its whole life and changed it regularly.
no science here just a whole lot of personal experience.
I agree. Back in the 80's, I worked for Goodyear as a technician, Goodyear used ONLY Quaker State oils. I tore into countless engines that were all sludged and the common denominator was they all had there oil changes done by us roughly every 5k miles.

We complained of this issue and told Goodyear they should switch brands of oil.

If you ever pulled a high mileage valve cover off an engine and it was clean, they weren't having there oil changed by us.

  #50  
Old 04-29-2016, 11:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rohrt View Post
I was told years ago like back in the late 80s that Quaker state and Penzoil were the worst oils out there and if I saw a motor that was coked up it was most likely running one of those oils.


I too used to use Valvoline and the inside of my motors have always been clean.
There is some truth to this, because some 'cheaper' oils back in the day use to use paraffin additives, or that was my understanding. The Olds I have came straight from PA, lived there it's whole life, was a grandma 350 2bbl daily driver for 200k miles, and look what I found when I pulled it....and this pic is after I already cleaned some of it out.

You should have seen what I found when I pulled a rocker cover...you couldn't even see pushrods...

.
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  #51  
Old 04-29-2016, 11:38 AM
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rohrt - Nice homework there back on post 25, I'm going to ref that and re-read a couple times.

SRR - I like seeing people dig and not take other's word for it, nice homework on the filters. There's a couple other sources for filters where folks have done similar, but the data is becoming dated. Wish someone would do it again, things have changed.

I will say for sure that filters make a difference. I've seen folks here freak because they have an oil psi drop after changing the oil and filter, FRAM being the big one. Those Bosch are another. Swap the filter to an AC or Wix, problem solved.

Ever see a filter collapse internally? Basically becomes a cork, and oil run via the bypass the whole time, never gets filtered. Bought my first POS truck from a guy who had just did a 'tune up' before listing for sale, had Kmart do an oil change. I immediately changed the oil and filter when I got it home, and that filter was collapsed internally. Less than 300 miles on the oil change, sticker was still on the windshield. And another good reason to not block your filter housing bypass.

Think I have about 6 or 8 AC PF24s left from my case, those have been good to me. Affordable and reliable. I did run K&N filters for a while, great filters, but they kind of filter too much. The elements stop flowing as well after like 1000-1500 miles or so. Considering the cost, I just as well go back to ACs. One can argue that you can't ever filter the oil too much, but past a certain particle size, it won't make a difference. If you want to catch more and maintain flow, go to an aftermarket screen type filter added on. Or that's my opinion.

.

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1970 GTO Judge Tribute Pro-Tour Project 535 IA2
http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=760624
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  #52  
Old 04-29-2016, 11:59 AM
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Mobile 1 15/50 with a Napa 1049 filter in the Pontiac.
Mobil 1 0/20 with a Napa gold filter in the truck.
Change the Pontiac once per season and the truck when the mileage minder gets to 30%.
No issues with either vehicle.

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  #53  
Old 04-29-2016, 12:03 PM
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Thanks I should re-read it myself a few times. I should add in what Adam found in the other link about zink. After all that reading and research I think there some good oils out there but the SHELL ROTELLA T has worked great for me so I will continue to use it.

http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=789681
Originally Posted by AdamIsAdam View Post
I found this page to be VERY informative. Assuming it' true. The gas in tank analogy was excellent and easy to understand for sure!

http://bestmotoroil.weebly.com/

And since I find the need to run dino and not synthetic oil (Syn caused more oil leaks for me for sure), I'm happy with my selection of Valvolin VR1 as being the highest rated, non-syn street oil. I just hope the 20W50 has the same rating as the 10W30.

7. 10W30 Valvoline VR1 Conventional Racing Oil (silver bottle) = 103,505 psi
zinc = 1472 ppm
phos = 1544 ppm
moly = 3 ppm

Nice site. I don't remember if I came across that one or not.

Makes a good point about film strength.

One thing left out or just not that clear is, I have read in other places is that zinc\phos is still the best additive extreme pressure anti-wear additive made. The oil companies had to reduce the zinc because of the effect it was having the catalytic converter. They may have found substitutes to use, but I would question if they are better.

It makes it tough for anyone to compare if a oil is good or not. Look at these two oils that many here use and tell me what is better? Then look at the price.

6. SHELL ROTELLA T, 15W40 conventional, API CJ-4, CI-4 Plus, CH-4, CG-4, CF-4,CF/SM
“Load Carrying Capacity/Film Strength” = 72,022 psi
zinc = 1454 ppm
phos = 1062 ppm
moly = 0 ppm
total detergent/dispersant/anti-deposit build-up/anti-sludge = 2886 ppm
TBN = 9.1
The onset of thermal breakdown is approximately 250*
NOTE: This new Rotella T has SIGNIFICANTLY MORE zinc than the OLD Rotella T, NOT LESS as is often claimed. And these two Rotella oils were Lab tested more than a month apart. So, their component quantities had no chance of being mixed up. This new Rotella’s wear protection capability is just slightly BETTER than the OLD Rotella. Therefore, the new Rotella is NOT the junk some have claimed.


3. 5W30 Mobil 1, API SN = 105,875 psi
zinc = 801 ppm
phos = 842 ppm
moly = 112 ppm

  #54  
Old 04-29-2016, 12:45 PM
71HO4SPD 71HO4SPD is offline
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Default oil and filter

'95 GMC 5.7 original owner. Over 500,000 miles. Castrol 10W-30 conventional and Fram filters. 3000-8000 mile interval changes. All original internals.....still has original timing chain. About the first 250,000 mainly highway miles. The remainder split between highway and stop and go city miles. Burns a quart of oil a month.

  #55  
Old 04-29-2016, 01:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HWYSTR455 View Post
There is some truth to this, because some 'cheaper' oils back in the day use to use paraffin additives, or that was my understanding. The Olds I have came straight from PA, lived there it's whole life, was a grandma 350 2bbl daily driver for 200k miles, and look what I found when I pulled it....and this pic is after I already cleaned some of it out.

You should have seen what I found when I pulled a rocker cover...you couldn't even see pushrods....
That rings true with me as well. Back in the 80s and 90s we would get engines & cylinder heads at the shop caked with black deposits like that. We called them "Jiffy Lube engines" because they were always from vehicles with 3,000 mile Jiffy Lube service running Quaker State or Penzoil. Some times you'd remove the valve covers and could not even see the valve springs or rocker arms.

  #56  
Old 04-29-2016, 02:19 PM
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Have posted before, but will re-post in this thread:

Up until 1979 used Valvolene with no issues in most of my vehicles. When Mobil 1 came out, I did use Mobil 1 in the one vehicle that needed to start in the winter, regardless of conditions.

In 1979, special-ordered a factory turbo Ford mustang. After getting mixed suggestions from various local "experts" on what oil to use with a turbo, called Ford. Actually got to talk to the engineer in charge of the turbo project. He stated that the turbo used engine oil, and spun up to excess of 30k RPM, and he suggested an oil that met API SF, but not API CC specifications, as the CC oil could "froth" at higher RPM's. He also recommended using Ford oil, but I could use any that met the above specs. Researched (at that time) and only 3 or 4 oils met these criteria. Since the Ford oil was readily available, I switched all my vehicles to Ford oil (except the cold weather pick-up in which I continued to use Mobil 1).

The engineer also told me to let the turbo engine idle for 20~30 seconds before shut-down to allow the turbo to spin down with oil pressure, thus preserving the turbo bearings. I have done so, and to date, no problems.

The other vehicles: my shop truck got 440k miles (the head was never off, but the *&^%$#@ electronic ignition failed 12 times!!!) before it rusted out the third time from Missouri salt and cinder winters.

I still use Ford oil in everything, including my GTO.

So my research consisted of calling an engine design engineer. So far, his advice has been great.

But I also change oil and filter at 2500 miles.

And a further comment on electronic ignitions: On all my newer vehicles, I am averaging LESS than 30k miles BEFORE FAILURE on electronic ignitions. I have spent far more in maintenance costs on relays, solenoids, speed control sensors, anti-stop rear brake computers, electronic ignitions, etc. on my newer vehicles than I have engine overhauls on my older vehicles! Either electronics don't like me, or they don't like Missouri weather! And some wonder why I still use points and condensor in my older vehicles

Jon.

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Last edited by carbking; 04-29-2016 at 02:26 PM.
  #57  
Old 04-29-2016, 02:30 PM
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I have not had an engine with sludge inside since i started using Mobil 1 in the 80's.

Back in the mid 60's the oil pressure lite in my Dad's '59 Catalina came on and had bad valve cover leaks so we took the valve covers off.....it was so sludged up there, I guess the oil could not drain back fast enuf. cleaned it all up and we were back in business.

George

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