#21  
Old 04-04-2020, 12:50 PM
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1968GTO421 1968GTO421 is offline
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^ Goo d question with our V-8's. But I can see were it happens with street engines on the newer cars. My wife has a 2018 Ford Escape with a 1500cc (90 CI) turbo engine.When she gets on it hard on freeway entrances, I've seen the tach (if accurate) whip up to 6500 rpm before the 6-8 speed automatic upshifts. It's crazy. I prefer Large torque in my engine then screaming revs on a street engine. It's hard to see long life for these newer engines turning like that.

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Old 04-04-2020, 01:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hurryinhoosier62 View Post
Stan, WHY would you make a pull higher than 6,000 rpm with a street engine?
Why would it matter that it's a street engine? Our 406 peaked at 6400.
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  #23  
Old 04-04-2020, 01:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1968GTO421 View Post
^ Goo d question with our V-8's. But I can see were it happens with street engines on the newer cars. My wife has a 2018 Ford Escape with a 1500cc (90 CI) turbo engine.When she gets on it hard on freeway entrances, I've seen the tach (if accurate) whip up to 6500 rpm before the 6-8 speed automatic upshifts. It's crazy. I prefer Large torque in my engine then screaming revs on a street engine. It's hard to see long life for these newer engines turning like that.
A Google search says 2018 Base 1.5l Horsepower: - 179 hp @ 6000 rpm so I don't see any reason for it not to turn 6500 RPM.

Stan

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Old 04-04-2020, 02:21 PM
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I know this is taking this thread a little off of topic.

Does anyone know anyone racing a 301 Tubro? It would be interesting how much HP the 301T block can take. There are tons of 383 ci SBC running around making good HP. There should be no reason that the same thing can not be done with the 301T block if it would hold up.

Stan

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Old 04-04-2020, 02:58 PM
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I was there the day they filmed this. I was invited as a guest of David Butler. I had just finished dynoing my engine down at Young's performance in Alabama earlier and I had some time to kill before my flight home. Lou was pretty cool just what you see on the screen the other guy didn't have much to say. The session was cut short because the engine was hurt the entire time so who knows if that effected the power it may very well have. David said he didn't like letting the guys from the show assemble the engine but that was the deal when you agree to do these shows.

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Old 04-04-2020, 03:36 PM
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What was wrong with the engine?

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Old 04-04-2020, 03:44 PM
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How high will my engine rev?

The question should NEVER be "how high will it rev?" but rather, "At what RPM does it make it's peak horsepower at, and is the engine built strong enough to run at it's peak power making RPM?".

One opinion of many here .....

https://www.badasscars.com/index.cfm...prod/prd46.htm

Once you leave the dyno you should be armed with some documentation gleaned from the dyno runs. You need to be concerned not only with the peak power but where the torque and horsepower numbers are versus engine rpm. These critical bits of data are just what you paid for.


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Old 04-04-2020, 04:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve C. View Post
How high will my engine rev?

The question should NEVER be "how high will it rev?" but rather, "At what RPM does it make it's peak horsepower at, and is the engine built strong enough to run at it's peak power making RPM?".

....


.
Rather baffling that this isn't how some people think about it.


the engine is a combination of it's parts. Parts selected during the build process should be chosen to complement each other and to meet the goals of the build.

over-building is never a problem except for your wallet. Building an engine that can withstand 7000 RPM but makes it's peak power at 5400 is far better than the other way around.

For street driving, I prefer engines that make a lot of torque at lower RPMs. If you have an engine that doesn't make good power 'til 6000+ RPM then when you're driving along and need some brisk acceleration you need to give it a bunch of gas, wait for the transmission to downshift and for the engine to get up into it's powerband for the car to start speeding up. If you have a bunch of lower RPM tractor-engine torque on tap, you give it a little gas and it'll move out right away.

My current company gave me a Ford Transit Connect as my work vehicle. it has a tiny little 4-cylinder with a 6500 RPM red line. From a stoplight it's okay but if you're driving on the freeway and need to pass, or just speed up a little to get around someone it sucks. The last company I worked for gave me a Chevy Express with a 5.7L. I liked that van a LOT better.

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  #29  
Old 04-05-2020, 09:44 AM
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Grivera,

It had metal particles in the oil. Lou was interested in my engine and said they should put it on the dyno for some fun. I wish I had it with me that could have finished their day of shooting off right!

  #30  
Old 04-05-2020, 02:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Will View Post
Rather baffling that this isn't how some people think about it.


the engine is a combination of it's parts. Parts selected during the build process should be chosen to complement each other and to meet the goals of the build.

over-building is never a problem except for your wallet. Building an engine that can withstand 7000 RPM but makes it's peak power at 5400 is far better than the other way around.

For street driving, I prefer engines that make a lot of torque at lower RPMs. If you have an engine that doesn't make good power 'til 6000+ RPM then when you're driving along and need some brisk acceleration you need to give it a bunch of gas, wait for the transmission to downshift and for the engine to get up into it's powerband for the car to start speeding up. If you have a bunch of lower RPM tractor-engine torque on tap, you give it a little gas and it'll move out right away.

My current company gave me a Ford Transit Connect as my work vehicle. it has a tiny little 4-cylinder with a 6500 RPM red line. From a stoplight it's okay but if you're driving on the freeway and need to pass, or just speed up a little to get around someone it sucks. The last company I worked for gave me a Chevy Express with a 5.7L. I liked that van a LOT better.
Precisely, Will. For the most part a street engine that produces peak power at 6,000 rpm or higher is relatively useless IMO. What IS useful in a street engine is one that CAN idle at a stop light and not induce hypoxia from the fumes coming out of the tail pipe, does NOT overheat in stop and go traffic, is reasonable fuel efficient, doesn’t require 10 hours of maintenance after traveling 100 miles, doesn’t require continual input of cash and can STILL leave most “modern” musclecars at a stop light.

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  #31  
Old 04-05-2020, 05:16 PM
Steve C. Steve C. is offline
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"..... the build process should be chosen to complement each other and to meet the goals of the build."

Meeting their goals, we have seen many enthusiasts in our community become more high performance oriented. The use of roller cams, looser converters, more gear, ported aftermarket cylinder heads, single-plane intakes, larger cubic inches with aftermarket blocks, etc, etc. Not everyone's cup of tea but very unrealistic to consider a 5500+ RPM engine can't be streetable, that and a larger cubic Pontiac capable of making 600+ horsepower at 6000 peak rpm is definitely not lacking torque off idle or cruising around on the street !


.

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Old 04-05-2020, 05:25 PM
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Guys,Joe Sherman always was leery about running a pontiac engine past 6000 because of everything he had been told-read about them.On my 366 V engine he hung it out just under 7000 with the sissy lifters.The 301-383 always had me wondering what it would have made HP too.Tom

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Old 04-06-2020, 02:08 PM
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Tom,
It is hard to say what the engine would have done if pulled higher. I don't think it would have make a huge amount more HP. This graph shows the data from the dyno pull. The 2 short red lines show where the dyno pull data stopped. From there I guesstimate 2 different ways the torque curve could have went. 1 shows the curve reducing with the same slope (Higher peak HP and RPM) and the other shows the slope dropping more rapped.

Stan
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Old 04-06-2020, 03:25 PM
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Stan,with other engines I have run with single plane intakes I figured it would have peaked around 6500ish.The V 301-383 im building will have a dual plane so thinking around 6200.I will be interested if the 2-4 Xram intake will work well at all.Tom

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