#21  
Old 08-11-2020, 09:40 AM
chuckies76ta's Avatar
chuckies76ta chuckies76ta is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 3,078
Default

If memory serves me correctly the port on the oil filter housing monitors the oil pump and top of block is after oil filter, which if that’s the case, problem points to oil pump. I’ll have to check a oil filter housing again.

  #22  
Old 08-11-2020, 09:46 AM
chuckies76ta's Avatar
chuckies76ta chuckies76ta is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 3,078
Default

Put a wix filter oil while your at it.

  #23  
Old 08-11-2020, 03:58 PM
Dragncar Dragncar is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Humbolt County California
Posts: 8,284
Default

I would pull that engine down ASAP. I had a buddy years ago had a issue like that, pickup was laying in the bottom of the pan. It still ran but the bearings looked like garbage.

  #24  
Old 08-11-2020, 06:30 PM
slowbird's Avatar
slowbird slowbird is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Montgomery, IL
Posts: 10,638
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckies76ta View Post
If memory serves me correctly the port on the oil filter housing monitors the oil pump and top of block is after oil filter, which if that’s the case, problem points to oil pump. I’ll have to check a oil filter housing again.
Correct, thats way taking pressure by dist is usually a few lbs lower (its after the filter).

The Following User Says Thank You to slowbird For This Useful Post:
  #25  
Old 08-12-2020, 09:09 AM
spectramitch's Avatar
spectramitch spectramitch is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: MI
Posts: 106
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragncar View Post
I would pull that engine down ASAP. I had a buddy years ago had a issue like that, pickup was laying in the bottom of the pan. It still ran but the bearings looked like garbage.
Did he still have good oil pressure at idle?

  #26  
Old 08-12-2020, 09:28 AM
spectramitch's Avatar
spectramitch spectramitch is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: MI
Posts: 106
Default

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNfG...ature=youtu.be

Check this out. This is in neutral at idle. It almost seems like the same timing intervals of the drop are the same when at cruise.

  #27  
Old 08-12-2020, 04:24 PM
Dragncar Dragncar is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Humbolt County California
Posts: 8,284
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by spectramitch View Post
Did he still have good oil pressure at idle?
Can't say for sure, long time ago.
With my engine about 15 years ago I went from a Canton pan to s stock one and put a different 60lb pump with stock pickup on.
Took it to the track and the oil pressure would go down to 10lbs at idle. Slowly climb with RPM. I shut it off, pushed it back on the trailer, pushed it off the trailer and into the garage. Pulled the engine that nite. Took the pump that had the Canton pickup on it and switched it to a stock style pickup. I knew that pump worked flawlessly.
That is after pulling some main caps to check bearing condition. I still have the pump I removed that nite. I bet it has something stuck around the check ball. Its a pump I had on the car my senior year in High School, only ran for a year. But I don,t trust it. Might be fine with cleaning but its not going back in any of my engines.
Don't mess with this, pull the engine. At this point I bet you have some bearing damage.

  #28  
Old 08-13-2020, 05:52 AM
steve25's Avatar
steve25 steve25 is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Westchester NY
Posts: 14,634
Default

Stop procrastinating and yank the motor while it's still rebuildable!

Many moons ago I had a stock 455 that had low oil pressure for just 3 days and then fortunately the 4th day at only 30 mph it went from dead quite to really loud rod hammering in 15 seconds!
I was lucky and shut it down and saved everything, if I was on the highway and that took place up at another 1000 rpm or so I am sure that rod would have ventilated the block before I was able to shut it down!

__________________
Wernher Von Braun warned before his retirement from NASA back in 1972, that the next world war would be against the ETs!
And he was not talking about 1/8 or 1/4 mile ETs!

1) 1940s 100% silver 4 cup tea server set.

Two dry rotted 14 x 10 Micky Thompson slicks.

1) un-mailed in gift coupon from a 1972 box of corn flakes.
Two pairs of brown leather flip flops, never seen more then 2 mph.

Education is what your left with once you forget things!
  #29  
Old 08-16-2020, 04:25 PM
Vince GTO's Avatar
Vince GTO Vince GTO is offline
Chief Ponti-yacker
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: West Milton,OH
Posts: 503
Default

Hello All,
Has anybody ever considered removing the oil filter adapter completely and making a cap for the block. Then use an oil primer drive for the distributor to cause the pump to go over relief this would force a large amount of oil through the relief and my clear any debris/junk in the seat of the relief? Seems like I read a GM service note about this somewhere?

Vince

The Following User Says Thank You to Vince GTO For This Useful Post:
  #30  
Old 08-16-2020, 04:34 PM
389 389 is offline
Suspended
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 561
Default

Bleed the air out of the line to the gauge..

Change the oil to 5-30 Mobil 1 synthetic..

Add a quart of Shaler Rislone to the new oil...

  #31  
Old 08-16-2020, 06:16 PM
Joe's Garage Joe's Garage is offline
Chief Ponti-yacker
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Las Vega$, NV
Posts: 637
Default I've seen the picture of this from a service manual - probably here on PY

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vince GTO View Post
Hello All,
Has anybody ever considered removing the oil filter adapter completely and making a cap for the block. Then use an oil primer drive for the distributor to cause the pump to go over relief this would force a large amount of oil through the relief and my clear any debris/junk in the seat of the relief? Seems like I read a GM service note about this somewhere?

Vince
I don't think you would need to use a priming tool, though.

Just pull the coil wire and crank for a few seconds. Maybe repeat a few times.

Couldn't hurt things any more than they are probably already hurt.

Good luck!

  #32  
Old 08-17-2020, 09:49 PM
Vince GTO's Avatar
Vince GTO Vince GTO is offline
Chief Ponti-yacker
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: West Milton,OH
Posts: 503
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe's Garage View Post
I don't think you would need to use a priming tool, though.

Just pull the coil wire and crank for a few seconds. Maybe repeat a few times.

Couldn't hurt things any more than they are probably already hurt.

Good luck!
I was just thinking using the primmer tool would be less wear and tear on the distributor roll pin.
Vince

  #33  
Old 08-18-2020, 06:39 AM
steve25's Avatar
steve25 steve25 is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Westchester NY
Posts: 14,634
Default

What do you think adding Rislone to the oil will accomplish especially if his pumps check ball his being held open ?

__________________
Wernher Von Braun warned before his retirement from NASA back in 1972, that the next world war would be against the ETs!
And he was not talking about 1/8 or 1/4 mile ETs!

1) 1940s 100% silver 4 cup tea server set.

Two dry rotted 14 x 10 Micky Thompson slicks.

1) un-mailed in gift coupon from a 1972 box of corn flakes.
Two pairs of brown leather flip flops, never seen more then 2 mph.

Education is what your left with once you forget things!
  #34  
Old 08-20-2020, 12:06 PM
LenCaverly LenCaverly is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Barrington N.H.
Posts: 202
Default

add an extra quart of oil and see if the problem goes away if it does its pick up related if it doesn't then look at the pump . Idoubt that the filter housing is your problem unless your filter is completely plugged.

  #35  
Old 08-20-2020, 12:17 PM
Greg Reid's Avatar
Greg Reid Greg Reid is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Palmetto, GA. USA
Posts: 16,163
Default

What is 'typical' oil pressure, hot, at idle and cruise rpm?

__________________
Greg Reid
Palmetto, Georgia

  #36  
Old 03-13-2022, 09:12 AM
spectramitch's Avatar
spectramitch spectramitch is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: MI
Posts: 106
Default

Its been a while but I finally got some time to pull the motor down. The rod bearings were all worn to copper. No.2 main bearing was completely spun, the other mains pretty worn. The most glaring problem as of now as a possible culprit, is my flexplate bolt heads colliding with the torque converter. Anyone ever see the aftermath of that? I have not measured the end play yet for thrust bearing, and I still need to open up oil pump. I cant believe this thing lived as long as it did. I was planning on taking it to the track for the first time this summer and wanted to make sure there were no issues. Good thing I checked.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_3135.jpg
Views:	155
Size:	74.4 KB
ID:	586168   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_3133.jpg
Views:	154
Size:	76.1 KB
ID:	586169   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_3136.jpg
Views:	151
Size:	55.1 KB
ID:	586170   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_5295.jpg
Views:	132
Size:	88.8 KB
ID:	586171   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_5249.jpg
Views:	133
Size:	112.3 KB
ID:	586172  


  #37  
Old 03-13-2022, 11:34 AM
chuckies76ta's Avatar
chuckies76ta chuckies76ta is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 3,078
Default

If your flexplate bolts were hitting the converter, how were you able to bolt the converter to the flexplate? The distance from the flexplate to the converter mounting pads is only 1/8" to 3/16" max. when converter is fully seated in the transmission. Anymore than 3/16" and shims are required between the flexplate and converter. There would have been a space when you went to bolt converter to flexplate. In other words, when you pulled converter up to the flexplate, the converter should have hit the head bolts before the converter mounting pads hit the flexplate.
I can see the witness marks on the converter pic.
One measurement you can do is with the torque converter fully seated in the transmission, measure from the face of the bellhousing to the converter mounting pads. Should be min. 1". Some say 1-1/8"

Another thing to check is that the hub of the converter fits into the crank. Also, next time your putting everything back together, you can spin the converter before bolting it to the flaxplate to check for any binding. Doesn't hurt to put a bit of grease on the hub of the converter before bolting it to the flexplate. The Flexplate does flex so the 1/8" to 3/16" is so the converter can move back and forth.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG-1550.jpg
Views:	91
Size:	37.9 KB
ID:	586196   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG-1551.jpg
Views:	76
Size:	40.8 KB
ID:	586197   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG-1553.jpg
Views:	76
Size:	38.9 KB
ID:	586198  

__________________
68 Firebird. IA2 block, 505 cu in, E-head, Solid roller 3650 weight. Reid TH400 4:11 gear. 29" slick.
Best so far 10.12@133 mph. 1.43 60 ft.
76 Trans am, TKX .81 o/d, 3.73 Moser rearend,
468 with KRE D-ports, Doug headers, 3" Exh.

Last edited by chuckies76ta; 03-13-2022 at 11:49 AM.
  #38  
Old 03-13-2022, 01:12 PM
Sirrotica's Avatar
Sirrotica Sirrotica is online now
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Catawba Ohio
Posts: 7,194
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by spectramitch View Post
I am going to take a look and see. Lust4speeds comment about the bypass makes sense. But I'm wondering if maybe there's something funky about the filter I'm using and the gauge line being right off of it. I am pulling from right above the oil filter on the housing.
Thing is, the by pass valve is your safety for a problem with the oil filter. Eliminating it does nothing to help the longevity of the engine. Starting the engine cold, can crush the filter media hydraulically. I can't for the life of me figure out why people plug the relief off.

If you want better filtering, a by pass filter is the way to get better filtering, not plugging the by pass valve. Pontiac is one of the engines that does not have a by pass valve internal to the filter. You have no safety valve when the by pass is plugged. The oil enters on the outside of the filter, passes through the media, and returns through the center to the internal engine parts.

Over pressuring the canister, can split the canister housing, force the O ring to leak, and crush the media. If the media ruptures, all the filtered dirt is free to pass right into the bearings. You have to ask yourself, what did I save by eliminating the by pass valve? The answer is you didn't save anything, you can ruin the whole engine if the media ruptures, and dumps all the filter contents directly into the engine. The scary thing is, you'll never know the media ruptured unless you dissect every filter by cutting it open, pulling all the pleats, and carefully examining the media. If you do find a compromised filter, the damage is already done.

If you change the filter, and toss the filter, the way you may find out is when the bearings fail, for no apparent reason. The idea for removing the by pass valve is to make every bit of oil flow through the filter. The problem with that theory is, a full flow filter filters down to 40 microns. The dirt that grinds up engine parts is small enough that it passes through the media anyway. 10 microns is the particulate size that can fit into the tight tolerances and grind away at the internal engine parts. The 40 micron size doesn't fit between the bearings and crankshaft, it can't fit in the tight spaces.

If you spend time researching, most engine builders (not every one) dismiss blocking the by pass valve as unnecessary. I've never blocked it in any engine I've ever built. If you want clean oil, a full flow filter will never provide it, the design is to filter out big pieces of dirt. If a full flow filter kept your oil clean, you wouldn't have to keep changing oil to get the small particulate out of the oil.

If you leave the oil in the engine, the small particles will keep getting denser. Everyone knows what happens if you don't change oil with a full flow filter system, sludge and engine wear ensues. Sludge is made up of the fine matter that flows through the full flow filter unimpeded.

Two ways to remove the fine stuff, flush the engine with fresh oil continually, or get a filter that removes it first pass. I use the second method to catch the fine matter first pass, rather than wait until I change oil to remove it from the engine.

One other thing, putting multiple full flow filters does decrease pressure loss across the filters, but it still doesn't remove the harmful matter that passes through a full flow filter.


__________________
Brad Yost
1973 T/A (SOLD)
2005 GTO
1984 Grand Prix

100% Pontiacs in my driveway!!! What's in your driveway?

If you don't take some of the RACETRACK home with you, Ya got cheated


Last edited by Sirrotica; 03-13-2022 at 01:17 PM.
  #39  
Old 03-13-2022, 02:15 PM
racegto65's Avatar
racegto65 racegto65 is offline
Chief Ponti-yacker
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Las Vegas,Nevada
Posts: 653
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckies76ta View Post
If memory serves me correctly the port on the oil filter housing monitors the oil pump and top of block is after oil filter, which if that’s the case, problem points to oil pump. I’ll have to check a oil filter housing again.
You have it backwards. Port by distributor is directly from the pump port on filter housing is after filter.

  #40  
Old 03-13-2022, 02:17 PM
racegto65's Avatar
racegto65 racegto65 is offline
Chief Ponti-yacker
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Las Vegas,Nevada
Posts: 653
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by slowbird View Post
Correct, thats way taking pressure by dist is usually a few lbs lower (its after the filter).
The port by the distributor is directly from the pump.

Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:55 AM.

 

About Us

The PY Online Forums is the largest online gathering of Pontiac enthusiasts anywhere in the world. Founded in 1991, it was also the first online forum for people to gather and talk about their Pontiacs. Since then, it has become the mecca of Pontiac technical data and knowledge that no other place can surpass.

 




Copyright © 2017