[67 455 Bird ragtop]

Starting to get things ready to put my motor back in later this summer. Trying to decide between a v-belt or serp setup. Looking at both from CVF. Look like nice stuff. Just wondering if it's worth the $$ to go serp over v-belt.

[Don 79 TA]

i have used both the v and serp from March
both nice setups
you might benefit more on the alternator side if you are using alot of juice with a serp setup
less slippage, usually harder to throw a serp. belt too
better pulley alignment too

[Speargun]

I went with the CVF V-belt pulleys & brackets. LOTS of time spent modifying trying to get everything lined up!
Alternator & power steering belts still aren't as good as I would like, but they're "good enough" and haven't thrown a belt yet.
The alternator is at it's maximum adjustment.
The power steering adjustment is a pain to get to.
The AC compressor takes a 59.5" (iirc) belt and I have to unbolt it from the mounting bracket to get the belt on.

If I had to do it again, I would go serpentine.

[scott-462]

I went v belt with cvf recently. I was having a nightmare of a time with my alt belt slipping. Turns out the water pump pulley was cracked between the bolt holes. Bought some new cvf v belt pulleys and not a slip yet. As many alt belt I've ate up and thrown off, I coulda bought the pulleys at least once or twice over lol

[steve25]

For me if am gonna put long driving trips on the car I want V belts! Why?
If a bearing in something like the Alt or A/C comp goes bad I can snip that belt and still have the water pump going !
If something goes south with a Serpent belt , your burning that belt up in a matter of minutes and your stuck!

[Lee]

Is there a serpentine system for Pontiacs that uses an actual tensioner?

There is a reason ALL car manufacturers use spring loaded tensioners.

[Schurkey]

If you're going to use 80+ year-old technology, why not just use the OEM pulleys and brackets?

A "properly engineered" serpentine system is tough to beat. Less power loss through belt friction, automatic tensioning, simple belt replacement after 80,000 miles or so.

Problem I see is that aftermarket accessory-drive "engineers" appear to be morons. They fail to provide adequate belt wrap, or the accessories stick up so high they look like Mickey-Mouse ears.

Judging by the "Beast" photo on the CVF web site, I'm very unimpressed with the belt wrap on the PS pump, the crank wrap looks marginal, although the A/C, alternator, and water pump look OK.

WHERE is the automatic tensioner? OEMs have proven them for the last 30+ years. (They're included in the "Wraptor" system, at $1600+)

None of the photos show how the accessories are braced from the rear. I can imagine them vibrating if CVF failed to provide adequate support in all three dimensions.

https://www.cvfracing.com/Pontiac-Pe...ries-s/219.htm

[ho428]

I've yet to see a serpentine system look right on a Pontiac engine. Just looks out of place.
I think an all aluminum V pulley system using OEM brackets looks better.

[TedRamAirII]

V belts for me. All this trying to make a Serpentine belt work is a lot of Mickey Mouse with these "kits". I agree with Schurkey. Look at the length and routing of that belt! No Tensioner? But if you have the time, I like this approach. http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...ght=serpentine

[AROWHED]

The "DIY junkyard serpentine" topic here on PY worked great for me. Less than $200, can take belt off in less than a minute. I'll never mess with PITA V-belts again.

[Half-Inch Stud]

I've gone with the Vee-belt system, from GM. Stamped steel pulleys (black) except the alternator is like Alodine or some chemocal conversion coating.

Gates makes a strong cogged (toothed) Vee-belt that has proven to me to remain quiet on PS and Alternator inertial loads while the engine does jerk-level accelerations and decellerations.

Electric fan, no mechanical fan because the "High Capacity" Cooling fans are waaaay too high an inertial load for Performance drivng activities.

If a fella thnks the serpentine system will drive all that and the factory fan, i've got a water pump to sell them....'cause they'is gonna need a few.

[Ozzmann]

I have a CVF Serpentine setup on my new engine, had no issues fitting it, everthing lined up perfectly.

[HWYSTR455]

The Billet Specialties serp setup has a tensioner, only one I can think of that does, but wow, it's not cheap. But that's a good thing in a way, because it is properly engineered, quality parts, and excellent instructions.

There are times where you actually NEED a serp setup, main reason is when you have high electrical loads, but packaging is another biggie, like when you have a blower+AC+etc.

V-belt pulleys do wear out, not to mention over the years they get bent up too. Squeal and tossing belts after you KNOW you have everything right is a big indication it's time to replace them.

Many if not all the steel, OE pulleys are being made by repop places, that's a good thing. Brackets too. You just need to make sure you have all the matching pieces and correct ones when you replace.

I've used RARE replacement, aluminum pulleys in the past with great luck. I've had great support to from them, they have mapped out all the appropriate part numbers for matching systems before they started producing them. Would have to say they have their' stuff together, and recommend them.

Yes, steel pulleys last longer than aluminum ones, but the aluminum ones have better tolerances, and run more true. So there's a trade off. If you run high RPMs, or have special needs, then the aluminum ones are the way to go, otherwise, the steel ones are fine.

If you don't have special needs where you have to run a serp setup, it makes $ense to run a v-belt setup. If you just want to add bling, guess that's a reason too, that would be up to the user to determine if it's worth it.

.

[67 455 Bird ragtop]

Rodney Red made one a while back. In fact I have one. It has a tensioner. But the fitment was a bit off. I went to a smaller belt to gain some clearance. The pic below was before the smaller belt. I think the water pump pulley might also be a little too big. When I get back to installing my motor I'll address the issue. ANy thoughts on a different water pump or crank pulley to help the issue?? My ps pump is a 1976 Eldo with dual return for my hydroboost setup. I appreciate all the opinions on this issue.

[Tom Vaught]

Luhn Performance did a nice job on serpentine belt systems for several people on the PY Board.

Tom V.

[mtdaniel]

I used the CVF serpentine set up. I only have the water pump n alternator though. I was having trouble getting the belt tight enough so that it wouldn't squeal. I have a big fan a HD fan clutch n hi flow water pump. The original design the belt runs from the water pump to the alt. The belt only catches the water pump pulley from the 9 o'clock position to the 11 o'clock position. . So I purchased an idler pulley from CVF and bought a longer bolt for the water pump bracket. And I installed it as shown. Now the belt wraps around the water pump and alt. alot more than their original design. And it doesn't take much tension at all to drive everything without squealing .Pictured is the idler position and also the belt I used. You could go with a belt a 1/2 shorter if I did it again

[Schurkey]

Originally Posted by Schurkey

Problem I see is that aftermarket accessory-drive "engineers" appear to be morons. They fail to provide adequate belt wrap

Originally Posted by mtdaniel

I was having trouble getting the belt tight enough so that it wouldn't squeal. I have a big fan a HD fan clutch n hi flow water pump. The original design the belt runs from the water pump to the alt. The belt only catches the water pump pulley from the 9 o'clock position to the 11 o'clock position.

Wow.

At least you figured out a solution. I bet it feels good to be smarter than the people who engineered the thing in the first place.

[Tom Vaught]

The Pontiac FEAD (Front End Accessory Drive) Guy was a Royal Idiot.

Every Year he changed crap on the systems. Changed the Water Flow for the heater to the back of the passenger head. Belt Wrap poorly done.
Dual belts on both alt and P/S. Dual belts (one on Alt and one on P/S), Sheeve line changes to the water pump snout and the Pulleys.

No excuse for a "9 o'clock position to the 11 o'clock position" Belt Wrap design.

Tom V.

[mtdaniel]

If anyone ever wants to do that modification to the CVF system . There was no machining involved . Just purchase an idler pulley from them. And a longer grade 8 bolt from the hardware that will go thru the idler pulley, alternator bracket and water pump..

[Half-Inch Stud]

Originally Posted by Tom Vaught

The Pontiac FEAD (Front End Accessory Drive) Guy was a Royal Idiot.

Every Year he changed crap on the systems. Changed the Water Flow for the heater to the back of the passenger head. Belt Wrap poorly done.
Dual belts on both alt and P/S. Dual belts (one on Alt and one on P/S), Sheeve line changes to the water pump snout and the Pulleys.

No excuse for a "9 o'clock position to the 11 o'clock position" Belt Wrap design.

Tom V.

Tom, You make some GReat observations, however, I offer to point out some rationale:

The PMD FEAD Guy was not a idiot, however i'd bleary-eyed to why the Pulleys & Brackets would be so model-specific, & go through yearly changes.

To prove the design shows talent, the fella seemed keenly aware that cooling fans have high inertia, so he made sure the water pump could slip during WOT events. Dual belts on the water pump would assure redundancy on such a %wrap.

The Crank Pulley assy having 4-bolts is a major coup on stress margins compared to the 3-bolt implementations.

Real good of the fella to put the AC Compressor on the right-side where it belongs. Why all the bracket changes...i dunno but i do favor the 68-70 AC bracketry. The poor Chevy croud has their AC pump on the Left side. The worst is a long stretch of Fords having every accessory bolted to Timing cover bosses, making maintenance a bad bad feelin.

So, in Summary i think the AC, PS, Water Pump arrangements are fine, whereas the Alternator could have been hung low. If the Alternator location was low then the water pump wrap could have been 9:00-3:00, and likely broke 10x more waterpumps upon TH400 upshifts.