[Tom Vaught]

Originally Posted by Half-Inch Stud

Tom, You make some GReat observations, however, I offer to point out some rationale:

Real good of the fella to put the AC Compressor on the right-side where it belongs. Why all the bracket changes...i dunno but i do favor the 68-70 AC bracketry. The poor Chevy croud has their AC pump on the Left side. The worst is a long stretch of Fords having every accessory bolted to Timing cover bosses, making maintenance a bad bad feelin.

So, in Summary i think the AC, PS, Water Pump arrangements are fine, whereas the Alternator could have been hung low. If the Alternator location was low then the water pump wrap could have been 9:00-3:00, and likely broke 10x more waterpumps upon TH400 upshifts.

Had a 1982 Ford 5.0L Mustang, Water Pump went Bad.
EXACTLY as you said, had to remove every part of the FEAD System as everything was bolted to the water pump.
So I may bad mouth the GM Guy for making changes every year.
Not wasting much typing on the Ford FEAD Mess.

Tom V.

[Nicks67GTO]

Originally Posted by Lee

Is there a serpentine system for Pontiacs that uses an actual tensioner?

There is a reason ALL car manufacturers use spring loaded tensioners.

Yeah I think the new CVF Wraptor has one

[Nicks67GTO]

Originally Posted by Schurkey

If you're going to use 80+ year-old technology, why not just use the OEM pulleys and brackets?

A "properly engineered" serpentine system is tough to beat. Less power loss through belt friction, automatic tensioning, simple belt replacement after 80,000 miles or so.

Problem I see is that aftermarket accessory-drive "engineers" appear to be morons. They fail to provide adequate belt wrap, or the accessories stick up so high they look like Mickey-Mouse ears.

Judging by the "Beast" photo on the CVF web site, I'm very unimpressed with the belt wrap on the PS pump, the crank wrap looks marginal, although the A/C, alternator, and water pump look OK.

WHERE is the automatic tensioner? OEMs have proven them for the last 30+ years. (They're included in the "Wraptor" system, at $1600+)

None of the photos show how the accessories are braced from the rear. I can imagine them vibrating if CVF failed to provide adequate support in all three dimensions.

https://www.cvfracing.com/Pontiac-Pe...ries-s/219.htm

To be fair that wraptor system includes a typeII power steering pump, AC compressor and alternator. I'm seriously considering it

[67 455 Bird ragtop]

As you can see from my picture above I think at least my water pump pulley is too big. Any thoughts on getting a smaller water pump pulley?? Or even both the crank and water pump pulley.

[HWYSTR455]

Originally Posted by Nicks67GTO

To be fair that wraptor system includes a typeII power steering pump, AC compressor and alternator. I'm seriously considering it

First I've heard of it, is it vaporware? I don't see any pics on their' site. But they do already have a price!

Never understood why someone would go thru the trouble to design a serp setup and not use a type 2 pump, tensioner, and not use 1 belt? Duh.

.

[avman]

I'm about to remove the factory radiator to install a Cold Case radiator, and while the radiator is out, I'm installing the A/C, alternator, power steering all inclusive Wraptor serpentine system on the 421 Tripower in our 65 GTO.
I've got everything, just need to make the time.

[HWYSTR455]

Originally Posted by avman

I'm about to remove the factory radiator to install a Cold Case radiator, and while the radiator is out, I'm installing the A/C, alternator, power steering all inclusive Wraptor serpentine system on the 421 Tripower in our 65 GTO.
I've got everything, just need to make the time.

Very nice! I'm curious about this system, please post your experience and pics!

Does that system require an 11 bolt type timing cover etc? Imagine it does, wondering...


.

[Chris65LeMans]

Originally Posted by mtdaniel

I used the CVF serpentine set up. I only have the water pump n alternator though. I was having trouble getting the belt tight enough so that it wouldn't squeal. I have a big fan a HD fan clutch n hi flow water pump. The original design the belt runs from the water pump to the alt. The belt only catches the water pump pulley from the 9 o'clock position to the 11 o'clock position. . So I purchased an idler pulley from CVF and bought a longer bolt for the water pump bracket. And I installed it as shown. Now the belt wraps around the water pump and alt. alot more than their original design. And it doesn't take much tension at all to drive everything without squealing .Pictured is the idler position and also the belt I used. You could go with a belt a 1/2 shorter if I did it again

My CVF kit runs my water pump, alternator, power steering. It came with that idler pulley - I’m very happy with it.

[64speed]

I am using the CVF v belt setup cause I don’t like the idea of throwing a belt and losing everything. I had no problems getting it fitted although I did have to call support once cause the directions are vague. If you buy all the accessories from them you get a lifetime warranty

[avman]

Thanks for ALL of the replies. We bought a LOT of stuff for the 421 Tripower 65 GTO and my 70 440 6bbl Roadrunner. Vintage Air AC systems were part of that.
I'll have power steering with the Wraptor, and change my manual steering box to the Borgeson power steering unit. The GTO already has power steering.
I'm looking forward to a lot, on both cars.
The TKO600 5 speed for the GTO will replace the Muncie 4 speed, and that .60 5th gear will make the 3.80 Ring and Pinion gearset in the Quick Performance 9" play nice when the GTO is on the highway.
Speaking of the QP 9" I'm using brackets from Global West to do a permanent, exclusive coilover conversion. I tried the factory springs and shocks, but the short version is that doesn't work for what we are doing.
STAY TUNED!

[Half-Inch Stud]

@avman, you're gonna like the Vehicle so much more with the 0.6 OD. Report back on hiw much more

[avman]

Well the Wraptor is in the GTO, and in the next 3-4 weeks it will be in the Roadrunner.
I posted on the 60+page thread about water pump impeller to divider plate clearance and cooling issues that I'm having overheating problems with the Wraptor, Cold Case radiator, shroud and dual electric fans, but I suspect the problem may be in the setup of the divider plate to impeller gap, or possibly a 2nd plate that is in my 8 bolt water pump also belongs in the 11 bolt? The 2nd plate I'm referring to is the "ring plate" that you can see here on top of the divider plate in my old timing chain cover.
Should I have one of those in an 11 bolt water pump too? I don't.....

["QUICK-SILVER"]

No second plate with the 11 bolt.

Over heating thread on here recently where a member forgot or didn't know to install the tubes in the timing cover before the plate went on. Seems like it ran hot at speed but not in town.

Clay

[avman]

Originally Posted by "QUICK-SILVER"

No second plate with the 11 bolt.

Over heating thread on here recently where a member forgot or didn't know to install the tubes in the timing cover before the plate went on. Seems like it ran hot at speed but not in town.

Clay

Thanks, but I'm not sure what you mean by "install the tubes" and I didn't do the installation, but I sure am going to do the work that needs doing now, although I believe the mechanic is going to help.
So if you can elaborate on this I'd appreciate it!
I spoke with both CVF and Cold Case tech support today and the biggest takeaway from both is the CVF Wraptor supplied water pump impeller vanes are the cast variety (better than stamped steel) and they both think the gap between the vanes and divider plate is too big.
IMPORTANT! Cold Case tech support suggested testing the pressure of the running cooling system, and if the pressure drops as RPMs increase, that would indicate a problem with the water pump impeller function, like cavitation or some other issue with inefficiency.

["QUICK-SILVER"]

The metal tubes that hold the o-ring type rubber gasket that the divider plate seals up against.

Ring any bells?
Clay

["QUICK-SILVER"]

avman,

Here's a pick and a link to timing covers and parts.



https://www.bopengineering.com/ponti...t_parts2.shtml

Clay

[avman]

Originally Posted by "QUICK-SILVER"

The metal tubes that hold the o-ring type rubber gasket that the divider plate seals up against.

Ring any bells?
Clay

No, because I didn't do the installation.

[avman]

Originally Posted by "QUICK-SILVER"

avman,

Here's a pick and a link to timing covers and parts.



https://www.bopengineering.com/ponti...t_parts2.shtml

Clay

Thanks Clay! I forwarded the picture to the installer and he confirmed that he put them in.

[HWYSTR455]

Originally Posted by Lee

Is there a serpentine system for Pontiacs that uses an actual tensioner?

There is a reason ALL car manufacturers use spring loaded tensioners.

Billet Specialties is the only one I know of that has the tensioner properly place and good belt wrap.


.

[HWYSTR455]

Originally Posted by avman

Thanks for ALL of the replies. We bought a LOT of stuff for the 421 Tripower 65 GTO and my 70 440 6bbl Roadrunner. Vintage Air AC systems were part of that.
I'll have power steering with the Wraptor, and change my manual steering box to the Borgeson power steering unit. The GTO already has power steering.
I'm looking forward to a lot, on both cars.
The TKO600 5 speed for the GTO will replace the Muncie 4 speed, and that .60 5th gear will make the 3.80 Ring and Pinion gearset in the Quick Performance 9" play nice when the GTO is on the highway.
Speaking of the QP 9" I'm using brackets from Global West to do a permanent, exclusive coilover conversion. I tried the factory springs and shocks, but the short version is that doesn't work for what we are doing.
STAY TUNED!

Actually, that's pretty good belt wrap.


.