[joes455]

Looking at crowers 66333 lifters ,seems from opinions of this board that they are just reboxed Johnsons.Any HANDS ON experience?

[PAUL K]

They used to be re-boxed Comp Cam lifters when Comp was using Johnson for their Pontiac HR lifters. Crower would check the bleed down rates of the Johnson lifters before putting them in the Crower box. I'm not sure if Crower still uses Johnson HR lifters. Things change fast in this industry.

[Tim Corcoran]

Johnson makes three versions of their Hyd roller for Pontiac, 21120P STD Travel, 21120R Race, ST21120PR Short travel

[Tim Corcoran]

Why not just get Johnsons

[nmoreilly]

Originally Posted by Tim Corcoran

Why not just get Johnsons

I agree, I tried the Comps after I had a failure with the Lunati's and they didn't work out either. I went with the short travel Johnsons and have had no issues. Got them from Butler

[67gtospud]

Have almost 2500 miles on my short travel Johnson HR lifters. They're quiet and I recommend them to anybody whos looking at HR lifters.

[Lee]

Originally Posted by Tim Corcoran

Johnson makes three versions of their Hyd roller for Pontiac, 21120P STD Travel, 21120R Race, ST21120PR Short travel

O.K., I'll bite. What are the differences between the 3?

[Tim Corcoran]

Lee, what I know is the biggest difference is in the amount of pre-load travel. Standard has the most then the race then the short travel. Not sure why they classify the one in the middle as race. I was told that the shorter travel lifters acts more like a solid lifter so you don't loose any of your lift and duration like you would with a standard travel hydraulic or even a solid roller because of the lash. Another advantage of a hyd roller over a solid roller is the hyd roller has some cushion to it so it is not jerked as hard on and off the seat so they should be less prone to breakage especially in a street car application where it would get a lot of miles put on it. So which one do you need your your application I don't know you might check with Butler they sell them and should know. I have a set of the 21120R that I will be putting in my street car I will post an update on how they work out after the car is back on the road. That's really all I know.

[nmoreilly]

Exactly, when I was going through the cam specs with the Butler guys - 0.640 lift w/ 1.6 rocker - they told me the short travel version would be the “only “ lifter they’d recommend.

[Formulajones]

Steve Brule on engine masters mentioned that he always sees power pick up when switching from a regular hydraulic roller lifter to a short travel version, no matter the cam profile.

[ponjohn]

I asked in that other thread....money no object - best Hyd roller lifters?

[AG]

Crane.

[Tim Corcoran]

What is the best hyd roller lifter? This is a very interesting question and there is no solid answer. This is because The big names, Lunati, Comp Cams, Crane, Isky, etc... do not manufacture their own lifters they just repackage others. To further complicate things these companies change vendors on a regular basis so one time you might get a quality product and the next a POS. There are two major manufactures that I am aware of that make hyd roller lifters in the USA and that is Hy-Lift Johnson and Johnson. Both made in Michigan. Paul Carter uses the Hy-Lift Johnson's with good success and David Butler very recently told me that Johnson Lifter is preferred by engine builders. Because of the COVID plandemic Hy-Lift Johnson was shut down for a while they are back up running now but not currently making their hyd rollers for Pontiac they are filling back orders for the bigger sellers when they get caught up they hopefully will resume making them for Pontiacs. I suggest you get either Hy-Lift Johnson or Johnson Lifter brand.

[Dragncar]

The best is Crane, do not think their is too much debate about it. And they are the most expensive. Get what you pay for.

[tom s]

Has anyone used the Cranes since they were bought by the owners of Comp?Tom

[Formulajones]

Good point Tom, and the answer to that for me is no. I quit using Crane stuff way back when they filed bankruptcy. Never really went back to using them after that ordeal. After they got bought out I figured they were no different anyway.

[Tim Corcoran]

So the net question is who (currently) makes the Pontiac hyd rollers for Crane? I believe what Crane does (or was) doing is purchase the parts from a lifter manufacturer and do some level of assembly at their facility but they don't actually make the lifter bodies and machine the internals. This is a very precision process that few companies can do because of the extreme close tolerances done on complex grinding machines. I'd be curious to know who are making the lifters for them if they are the most expensive and buying them from another source then why are they the most expensive. If they are indeed "the best" then they would need to specify something specific from the manufacturer that the others are not doing. I'd be interested to know why they are the best.

[64speed]

I have Lunatis. I only have run in time on my engine but once it was broken in and idled down they seemed quiet. As long as they don’t fail or just tick line hell I will just tell people it’s a mechanical cam and move on.

[tom s]

I'm told,Cranes had the most consistent leak down rates.No nothing since they were bought.Im using Morels in my 301-383 build as I told they work in the 301 blocks?Will see.Tom

[pastry_chef]

Originally Posted by Tim Corcoran

I suggest you get either Hy-Lift Johnson or Johnson Lifter brand.

Do these two brands have different oil band heights? I remember Paul talking about the lifter bore oil modification.