[formula400]

Originally Posted by FunctionalShaker

Who knows if they were factory subs -- although those bolts don't look familiar to any other application -- or a later change. I also noticed in your pics that the bolts holding the hood tension spring are other than called for as well.

I'm wondering if changes weren't made somewhere along the way. I understood that the short slotted gusset brackets were a 70 only deal. Something else to look into. Has anyone else noticed this?

With this car being a july car, would it be feasible they had extra's ?? The April car here has the short slots, when would've the short slotted brackets stopped being installed???

Also, the hood spring bolts. good eye once again !!!! Your way ahead of me Mr. !!! LOL
But i'm liking the input, you need to stay right in this thread......

[FunctionalShaker]

True... there could be some transitional stuff going on here.

Another interesting thing is that the three bolts that attach the bottom of the center brace to the core support are unique to that location, but many times '314s are substituted.

[68bird400HO]

Originally Posted by formula400

I did not even pay attention to the "slot" difference, good eye and thanks !!

If the bolts were not all matching i would lean towards your side, but there is no evidence that they are not original, so i will probably just run with them.

When I replated the bolts for my 71 VN TA (12C car) I ended up with a set of four of those same 1-1/4" free-washer bolts with the EL head marking and couldn't figure out where they went. Now I know.....so....I am guessing they are the correct ones for our VN cars.

[FunctionalShaker]

Could be that was a late 70 change into 71. My early 70 has the '314 bolts. Maybe others with 71s can check what they have.

[formula400]

Originally Posted by FunctionalShaker

True... there could be some transitional stuff going on here.

Another interesting thing is that the three bolts that attach the bottom of the center brace to the core support are unique to that location, but many times '314s are substituted.

I noticed they were the same as the upper and lower radiator shroud bolts, also the u-nut is exactly the same.

[formula400]

Originally Posted by 68bird400HO

When I replated the bolts for my 71 VN TA (12C car) I ended up with a set of four of those same 1-1/4" free-washer bolts with the EL head marking and couldn't figure out where they went. Now I know.....so....I am guessing they are the correct ones for our VN cars.

Glad this has helped, thats why i'm doing this (and to learn new info myself) So since im not the only one with these bolts, i'm leaning towards later 70's changed. i need to go through some hardware for a july 70 i have here.

FunctionalShaker - what are the markings on your hood spring bolts ? also, are they 3/4" or 1" length ? thanks

[FunctionalShaker]

Here's a pic. 3/4" thread length. "flying F" marking. I also have some with an anchor and lines on them.

[Formulabruce]

Originally Posted by 68bird400HO

When I replated the bolts for my 71 VN TA (12C car) I ended up with a set of four of those same 1-1/4" free-washer bolts with the EL head marking and couldn't figure out where they went. Now I know.....so....I am guessing they are the correct ones for our VN cars.

have seen them on 70-72 NORwood cars too, in fact I have a set, probably end up in New jersey!

[Formulabruce]

Originally Posted by FunctionalShaker

Here's a pic. 3/4" thread length. "flying F" marking. I also have some with an anchor and lines on them.

Norwood used the captive washer bolt for the hood tension spring up front..interesting

[blue71ta]

Originally Posted by FunctionalShaker

Going by my paperwork: Custom belts came with custom trim, but you could order them with standard trim. Plastic buckles are custom, correct? My custom interior car has them and my standard interior shows them ordered on the sheet.

Boss... do you know what the transition date is?

the plastic buckles are the standard seat belts and the stainless buckles are the deluxe/custom belts. For 1970, a car that was ordered with the Bright Blue interior would get blue belts (the belt material itself). The standard belts had blue plastic buckles.

Can post pics of both if anyone is interested.

Also, starting in 1971, the standard belts would have been black.

[cdoggy81]

subscribed!

[formula400]

Originally Posted by FunctionalShaker

Here's a pic. 3/4" thread length. "flying F" marking. I also have some with an anchor and lines on them.

Thanks ! Now i have too see if i can locate those. I have bins here from when cars are stripped for parts, we save all the hardware in specific bins. Just hope i have those

[formula400]

Originally Posted by Formulabruce

have seen them on 70-72 NORwood cars too, in fact I have a set, probably end up in New jersey!

I have some 71-72 norwoods here, they dont have them type of bolts on these specific cars....These ones have the typical 3/4 small casted in washer with a "c" in the center.

[formula400]

Ok, now whats the chance of this. I have a very early 71 formula here awaiting a resto, here is a picture of the hood spring bolt???????????? its exactly the same from the one on the 70...according to my assembly manual, 70 and 71 have different part numbers, 70 calls for 9427275 as you stated, 71 is 3968521 - does anyone have a picture of this specific bolt ?




UPDATE :
After searching the 71 part number for the bolt here is a picture of what i found, can anyone confirm ?



I searched the 70 part number, here is picture online of what i kept finding....look familier ?

[Brewster]

The manuals are just a guide and are by NO means always correct. The true answers are in the original un-touched examples we love to admire.

[formula400]

Oh, i know...lol

I'm going by whats is available at this moment, and thats the part numbers. I need others to have a look at thier bolts and see whats there. We all know that they never built all cars alike. I just want to know if others have the coarse screws as well to confirm that this car could've had them. Seeing the same screws on the 71 i have is too coincidental.

[68bird400HO]

Originally Posted by formula400

Oh, i know...lol

I'm going by whats is available at this moment, and thats the part numbers. I need others to have a look at thier bolts and see whats there. We all know that they never built all cars alike. I just want to know if others have the coarse screws as well to confirm that this car could've had them. Seeing the same screws on the 71 i have is too coincidental.

Yup. Again my 71 VN TA has the same course screws and U-nuts. I can't remember for sure the head marking but I seem to think they were blank.

[formula400]

Originally Posted by 68bird400HO

Yup. Again my 71 VN TA has the same course screws and U-nuts. I can't remember for sure the head marking but I seem to think they were blank.

Cool, i think this is resolved then. I believe later 70's and some 71's recieved these "course" bolts then....

[FunctionalShaker]

An interesting side note: The '6223 bolt and '9994 u-nut configuration was used on 69 firebirds at the lower edges of the core support (I have confirmed this). It may be that Norwood cars used the '7275 bolts that matched the number in the assembly manual and that Van Nuys substituted the coarse bolts, or that they switched later in 70. I have a core support out of a CA car that had them, but I don't know the build date of the car it came off of.

Another interesting anomaly.

While we're comparing, check to see if the 71 trunk edge harness clips have a round hole stamped in them.

[keith k]

Originally Posted by FunctionalShaker

Going by my paperwork: Custom belts came with custom trim, but you could order them with standard trim. Plastic buckles are custom, correct? My custom interior car has them and my standard interior shows them ordered on the sheet.

Boss... do you know what the transition date is?

No link between custom belts and custom trim in '70. Either could be ordered without the other, and neither included the other.

The floorpan change from four e-coat drain holes to two e-coat drain holes (deletion of the two small round ones) happened in mid-May of '70.

BTW, great thread, and a great car to restore! I look forward to following this one.