[David Jones]

Vinyl top.

[69gtocv]

1gr869, on your engine unit # can you verify the 2nd # is a "3" ? Seems we are finding most of our 69's having an "8" in that position, not that it can't be a 3. Also, my exhaust manifolds are within a couple of days of each other. Your one is only 29 days before the block cast date and in line with the heads/intake dates and the other is the same day as the block date. What would be the odds that if one of the manifolds were replaced they'd find one with the date so close to your other components? I'd say you are good to go with the manifolds. On your vin stamping on the block, the last 6 should match the 111973 you have on the cowl tag. The 29z111973 should also be stamped on your transmission tag. Jeff

[Greg Reid]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Vin Stamped on block is illegible but starts 29Z111?77
Vin on cowl tag is Z111973 (four numbers off?)
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I find it hard to believe that you could have a block with the VIN number only four off from your cars VIN.
Are you sure about that number?
Like Jeff pointed out on the manifolds...What are the odds that out of all the engines produced by Pontiac, that someone would have just by chance, gotten hold of the block that originally went into the car that was produced only four units away from your's?
Unless I'm misunderstanding the numbering system...

[1gr869]

No, I'm not sure about the VIN number on the block. The VIN stamped in the block was double stamped and the number I indicated as a "?" is simply not there. I looked through some binoculars backwards to magnify it all and it simply is not legible. The last two digits do appear to be "77" though and the first three after the "Z" appear to be "111".

I will try to post the pictures if I can figure that out! I will also check the tranny tag, though I suspect that may not be original.

If the motor was replaced, what are the chances it would be replaced with one that was built in line with the delivery date to the dealership?

Also, when I pulled the motor, the motor mounts were completely shot and the guys that did the block work for me took one look at the crank, cam, etc. and said "this motor has never been touched, let alone rebuilt". I don't think this car has had much done to it in 35 yrs. since I've had to replace so much of it.

I'm not saying I have a numbers matching car. I'm just posting what I found. I do hope that that the guy who sold me the car doesn't sleep well at night, knowing that he lied terribly about this car.

I'm not too worried about it being numbers matching I guess since it won't be original when I'm done anyway. I'm going with a different cam, headers, hood tach, rear spoiler and the vinyl top had already been removed. I'll just be glad when I can get it on the road and enjoy it.

Regarding the engine unit #, I had my brother in law read it to me and I took pictures of it too. That part of the block was very legible and I'm quite sure it's a "3" but I'll check my pictures. If it is a 3 and not an 8, what would that mean?

Do you suppose the double stamping of the VIN number on the block makes it more valuable (like double stamped coins are)?...just kidding!

[David Jones]

1GR869
One thing I've learned since I've been involved with older cars is nothing is cut and dried. If GM could mix it up, they did. I wouldn't throw out the #'s matching ID just yet.

[69gtocv]

1gt869, I think your motor is probably the original. The stamping sounds too close and your date codes are in line. It'd just be better to have a nice vin stamping just for piece of mind if you care about it (you said you weren't worried about it). And reference the engine # being a 3 or 8. It makes no difference, I am just trying to figure out any rhyme or reason in Pontiacs numbering system.

[1gr869]

CV, when I first bought the car, I cared whether it was numbers matching or not. That's how it was represented and that's what I was looking for. But with all of the other things the seller lied about, I'm to the point now where I'm not worried if it's not. I thought I was going to go original with the car but if I show it (which won't be a lot) I'll have to go modified anyway. If it is a numbers matching, that will be one thing in my favor with the restoration of this baby, and I'll just be that much happier!

[69gtocv]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">If it is a numbers matching, that will be one thing in my favor with the restoration of this baby, and I'll just be that much happier! </div></BLOCKQUOTE> Exactly! Let me know if I can help you out in any way, I'm just about done with my frame-off restoration. Jeff

[1gr869]

Just an update on this topic...

I was doing some research on VIN numbers matching block numbers and from 3 sources I was told that it wasn't until 1970 that GM actually started making sure the block number matched the VIN plate. I mentioned this to my brother in law and he said that he was told that by another Chevelle guy.

Who knows really? Just thought I'd share what I learned.-

[Alex]

CHEVELLE GUY.........

BUT in any case beginning in 1968, Pontiac stamped the Vehicle ID number, consisting of the figure 2 followed by the last eight digets of the car serial number(VIN), into a machined pad on the RH front of the block.
This is what PHS states in the packet of info they sent ... Al