[pont3]

Full disclosure, I am a diy non-certified parts changer myself. So I have some idea of the time involved in completing certain repairs. I am also aware that any shop lane or lift time is time that another customer's vehicle could have spent there.

Thing is, I had my 2004 GMC Envoy in the shop for a state/emissions inspection. It failed the safety because a tie rod was loose. The truck has 123k miles on it and runs and drives better than most new cars I've driven. But, okay, the tie rod needs replacement, so he quotes me a price of four hundred dollars to replace ONE tie rod and do the necessary alignment.

I am not in dire straits so the 400 dollars is not the big deal as this truck has seen less than 1k miles since its last inspection two years ago. It is hardly used, but it is in pristine condition with the 5.3 engine and the dealer only offerred me 2500 dollars on trade in, so I just kept it.

So my question is, how far out of line is this 400 dollar quote? Mind you, I have already ordered both tie rods for less than eighty bucks, and I will install them myself, and it will take me less than an hour to do them both.

[Stuart]

Hourly rates vary depending on where you live but figure it will most likely be at least $100/hour. They'll also charge markup on parts, which could be 50% to 100% on top of list. If it takes an hour to replace the tie rod ends, don't forget there's additional time for the alignment, and in the cost for alignment they are probably including some embedded cost for use of their alignment rack and equipment. So, it doesn't take long to get to $400.

[Trulyvintage]

Originally Posted by pont3

Full disclosure, I am a diy non-certified parts changer myself. So I have some idea of the time involved in completing certain repairs. I am also aware that any shop lane or lift time is time that another customer's vehicle could have spent there.

Thing is, I had my 2004 GMC Envoy in the shop for a state/emissions inspection. It failed the safety because a tie rod was loose. The truck has 123k miles on it and runs and drives better than most new cars I've driven. But, okay, the tie rod needs replacement, so he quotes me a price of four hundred dollars to replace ONE tie rod and do the necessary alignment.

I am not in dire straits so the 400 dollars is not the big deal as this truck has seen less than 1k miles since its last inspection two years ago. It is hardly used, but it is in pristine condition with the 5.3 engine and the dealer only offerred me 2500 dollars on trade in, so I just kept it.

So my question is, how far out of line is this 400 dollar quote? Mind you, I have already ordered both tie rods for less than eighty bucks, and I will install them myself, and it will take me less than an hour to do them both.

You cannot compare or question
the rate a professional charges
for service with what you can
do it for yourself.

Every day - literally - I get someone
contacting me wanting to know
if it would be cheaper to hire me
to transport a vehicle rather than
them going to get it themself
for the cost of fuel.

Do your own work.

Jim

[kingbuzzo]

Agreed...paying retail at least that plus sin tax

[400 4spd.]

Install the tie rods and take it to a different shop for alignment. Let us know how it works out.

[Goatracer1]

I worked it the auto repair business for over 30 years before retiring. If the cost does not seem right to you ask them to break it down for you. Any honest shop will. When I bought my new truck I wanted the factory remote start installed. I didn't want aftermarket so I asked the dealer for a price. He quoted me $500 labor plus parts. My son and I did it in 1/2-3/4 of an hour never having done it to that kind of truck before. If the dealer was going to get $200 labor It wouldn't have bothered me. $500 was a rip off though. So ask your questions when in doubt.

[Lemans64]

Did some looking up on Prodemand, snap on based flat rate and repair. Lab is .9 to change outer tie rod end 1 side
Part was 350 retail for 1 thru AC Delco brand. Shop lab up here is close to 170 / hr. plus 129.99 for alignment.
Not saying they quoted on AC Delco but just saying prices can be higher from dealer or Jobber Retail.
Yes one can get parts cheaper and do it yourself, could also set toe by yourself if you wanted to.

[Half-Inch Stud]

I think R&R of the 2 tie-rods will take you 45-min, even an hour if the weather is nice. Enjoy.

[71GP76TA]

Off the top of my head .. $400 is about right depending on the labor rate. We charge $150/hr. Dealership is $220/hr. Parts price can vary depending on quality and markup. The days of $29 alignments are long gone.

[Mr Twister]

If you know how to do it yourself correctly, shop rates hurt your feelings. But remember, they got light bills, insurance, cost of the building, labor to pay etc. The other day I was sitting in a shop with a work vehicle getting serviced and overheard the service manager quote a rear O2 sensor on a 2010ish Ford SUV for $815. That left me scratching my head?

[KS circutguy]

I'm 72 and still do all my own work except alignment and tire changes.
For tie rod ends.
A pickle fork and a BFH is your friend.

[TAKerry]

Obviously you think the price is too high or you would have just told the shop to do it.
As a small business owner some things that people dont consider when they get a price for a professional service that they think is too high.

First the shop has overhead. That is the electric bill, the gas, water, heat, insurance (which aint cheap!) maybe rent or mortgage etc. You get the point.

Then there is Taxes!

As for markup on parts, someone is getting paid to sit at a desk, figure what part is needed and place the order, or in a worse case scenario go pick the part up. All that is time. Time=money.

On top of that is the payroll for the employee doing the job and the owner of the shop hoping theres enough fat left over to make a little profit for themselves.

So if the billing rate is $100 an hour the guy doing the work is not making $100 an hour.

I just had to have a new coil pack put on my truck. It cost around $400. I would imagine its not that hard to do, especially for someone that does that sort of work every day. But for me if I tried to do it myself I would loose money. I gladly paid the pro the $400 and spent my time making my own salary.

[400 4spd.]

I've spent $2800 for LP to keep my shop warm since the weather cooled. Gotta recoup it somehow.

[Tarl]

Don't forget the hazardous waste material disposal fee for the old tire rod.

[pont3]

Originally Posted by TAKerry

Obviously you think the price is too high or you would have just told the shop to do it.
As a small business owner some things that people dont consider when they get a price for a professional service that they think is too high.

First the shop has overhead. That is the electric bill, the gas, water, heat, insurance (which aint cheap!) maybe rent or mortgage etc. You get the point.

Then there is Taxes!

As for markup on parts, someone is getting paid to sit at a desk, figure what part is needed and place the order, or in a worse case scenario go pick the part up. All that is time. Time=money.

On top of that is the payroll for the employee doing the job and the owner of the shop hoping theres enough fat left over to make a little profit for themselves.

So if the billing rate is $100 an hour the guy doing the work is not making $100 an hour.

I just had to have a new coil pack put on my truck. It cost around $400. I would imagine its not that hard to do, especially for someone that does that sort of work every day. But for me if I tried to do it myself I would loose money. I gladly paid the pro the $400 and spent my time making my own salary.

Obviously I am not fool. Most folk nowadays WASTE their money simply because they don't know better. I am talking about a TIE ROD, remove cotter key, unscrew ONE nut, remove the tie rod from the knuckle and unscrew the tie rod from the center link. That's fifteen minutes at the most. You don't need ASE certification to do this.

Most people looking for service of ANY kind aren't concerned with what your cost of doing business are. They are looking to solve an issue. Fortunately for me, I have the wherewithal to not be deceived by the legal malpractice of automotive repairs.

I personally know two, (one of which was my NEXT door neighbor) who are multimillionaires today, all through exhorbitant charges for certain repairs. He has moved on to a muliti-million home with exotic cars and vacation homes by the lake.

After I retired from the Army, my brother and I started a trucking company and it lasted for eighteen years. We had ten 26' box trucks and delivered home appliances. We averaged 4-5k in weekly fuel expenditures. We had ONE tow that cost us over 2k when one of our truck went off a snow covered road and had to be extracted by multiple tow rigs. But you know what? Sears, Best Buy, and the other companies that we contracted with didn't care if we, as owners made a cent.

I thank all you shop owners for responding. But you seem to ignore the simplicity of R&R for a TIE ROD! I don't care how well off you might be, but throwing away money needlessly will quickly deplete your wealth,.

The personnel problem exists within the auto repair the same as any other industry. Substandard repairs are why repair shops struggle. The proliferation of aftermarket warranties is only exacerbating the problem

So to this point, NONE of you has pointed out the reason for a TIE ROD replacement should cost 400 dollars. Yes, I am old school and trying to redirect and adapt to the exhorbitant costs of pretty much anything these days. This is the same reason that I have so many projects on hold and will probably not move forward.

[Sirrotica]

Old flat rate mechanic, and also I've owned my own garage business twice during the last 5 decades. .8 HR. to replace the tie rod, and set toe in to factory spec. .3 HR. to replace tie rod without setting the toe in.

List price is all I've ever charged a customer repair for parts. If they supply their own parts then I add the markup to the bill, I also will charge them double labor if the part they bring me is wrong, or defective.

No warranty on labor if the customers part fails, and it needs to be replaced, 2 operations will be charged if their part fails, and I replace it a second time.

To warranty parts, and labor, I must supply the parts. I really hate messing with customers bargain basement crappy parts, plus I lose the markup, effectively cutting my paycheck. Every one of my customers would scream bloody murder if their boss cut their wages so he could save some money. In my eyes they're in effect asking me to take a pay cut to save them money. If you want to save money on the parts purchase, then you also need to do the labor, and save that expense too.

There's an old example that garage owners use when confronted by cusomers that want their parts installed by a professional. "Do you also buy your own steak at the grocery store, and take it to a restaurant, and have them cook it for you?"...........

That's how I ran my successful business for many years. I really didn't care if it offended anyone, it was my garage, and my rules, I had more work than I could keep up with.

You might want to get a second opinion if you can't see any play in the tie rod end. Either it was bad last time you had it inspected, and they missed it, or the garage you're currently dealing with is not that reputable. $400 to do 1 tie rod end seems excessive to me..........

FWIW, I found this on the net typical charge for Envoy parts, and labor:

Tie Rod End Replacement Service
How much does a Tie Rod End Replacement cost?
On average, the cost for a GMC Envoy XL Tie Rod End Replacement is $234 with $139 for parts and $95 for labor. Prices may vary depending on your location.

[Mr_GTO]

Do it yourself. www.rockauto.com has tie rods for $65 bucks plus shipping so call it $79 or buy it off amazon with free shipping.
Here is a video on how to do it. Then you'll have to get an alignment which aren't $300. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQZUrNhuU60
Shops have to charge more because they have other expenses to pay. They warranty their work but the place that sold them the part, like O'Reillys or Autozone warranty the part.

[71GP76TA]

Did the shop write you an estimate? I would be curious to see the breakdown.

[pont3]

Originally Posted by Sirrotica

Old flat rate mechanic, and also I've owned my own garage business twice during the last 5 decades. .8 HR. to replace the tie rod, and set toe in to factory spec. .3 HR. to replace tie rod without setting the toe in.

List price is all I've ever charged a customer repair for parts. If they supply their own parts then I add the markup to the bill, I also will charge them double labor if the part they bring me is wrong, or defective.

No warranty on labor if the customers part fails, and it needs to be replaced, 2 operations will be charged if their part fails, and I replace it a second time.

To warranty parts, and labor, I must supply the parts. I really hate messing with customers bargain basement crappy parts, plus I lose the markup, effectively cutting my paycheck. Every one of my customers would scream bloody murder if their boss cut their wages so he could save some money. In my eyes they're in effect asking me to take a pay cut to save them money. If you want to save money on the parts purchase, then you also need to do the labor, and save that expense too.

There's an old example that garage owners use when confronted by cusomers that want their parts installed by a professional. "Do you also buy your own steak at the grocery store, and take it to a restaurant, and have them cook it for you?"...........

That's how I ran my successful business for many years. I really didn't care if it offended anyone, it was my garage, and my rules, I had more work than I could keep up with.

You might want to get a second opinion if you can't see any play in the tie rod end. Either it was bad last time you had it inspected, and they missed it, or the garage you're currently dealing with is not that reputable. $400 to do 1 tie rod end seems excessive to me..........

FWIW, I found this on the net typical charge for Envoy parts, and labor:

Thank you! I've been wrenching on cars since the eighties and have replaced numerous parts on old cars that I acquired over the years. The Envoy drives just fine and the only reason they failed it is because the rubber boot is dry rotted I don't even drive the thing much anymore. The only reason I still have it is that the truck is in pristine condition inside and out. It is an LT model with leather interior, heated seats and steering wheel, sunroof, four wheel drive, and the 5.3 v8. It has accrued less than two thousand miles since its last inspection two years ago. It still, is worth more to me than 25 hundred dollars, but I cannot see putting exorbitant repairs into it.

As a former business owner myself, I understand the overhead and just how difficult it is for an owner of said business to provide a decent salary for himself.

All I am saying is that if you want to charge me $400.00 for something as simple as a tie rod, you are not going to be getting any future business from me. It seems to me that more and more people are going to be googling repairs and attempting those repairs themselves. It's not like a valve job or something labor intensive. It's a TIE rod. So you under charge people on the big jobs and over charge the small jobs to equalize things. I get it!

By the way, I had a thread about the "service vehicle soon" light on my '04 GTO and you didn't chime in, Any insight on that?

[pont3]

Originally Posted by Sirrotica

Old flat rate mechanic, and also I've owned my own garage business twice during the last 5 decades. .8 HR. to replace the tie rod, and set toe in to factory spec. .3 HR. to replace tie rod without setting the toe in.

List price is all I've ever charged a customer repair for parts. If they supply their own parts then I add the markup to the bill, I also will charge them double labor if the part they bring me is wrong, or defective.

No warranty on labor if the customers part fails, and it needs to be replaced, 2 operations will be charged if their part fails, and I replace it a second time.

To warranty parts, and labor, I must supply the parts. I really hate messing with customers bargain basement crappy parts, plus I lose the markup, effectively cutting my paycheck. Every one of my customers would scream bloody murder if their boss cut their wages so he could save some money. In my eyes they're in effect asking me to take a pay cut to save them money. If you want to save money on the parts purchase, then you also need to do the labor, and save that expense too.

There's an old example that garage owners use when confronted by cusomers that want their parts installed by a professional. "Do you also buy your own steak at the grocery store, and take it to a restaurant, and have them cook it for you?"...........

That's how I ran my successful business for many years. I really didn't care if it offended anyone, it was my garage, and my rules, I had more work than I could keep up with.

You might want to get a second opinion if you can't see any play in the tie rod end. Either it was bad last time you had it inspected, and they missed it, or the garage you're currently dealing with is not that reputable. $400 to do 1 tie rod end seems excessive to me..........

FWIW, I found this on the net typical charge for Envoy parts, and labor:

Thank you! I've been wrenching on cars since the eighties and have replaced numerous parts on old cars that I acquired over the years. The Envoy drives just fine and the only reason they failed it is because the rubber boot is dry rotted I don't even drive the thing much anymore. The only reason I still have it is that the truck is in pristine condition inside and out. It is an LT model with leather interior, heated seats and steering wheel, sunroof, four wheel drive, and the 5.3 v8. It has accrued less than two thousand miles since its last inspection two years ago. It still, is worth more to me than 25 hundred dollars, but I cannot see putting exorbitant repairs into it.

As a former business owner myself, I understand the overhead and just how difficult it is for an owner of said business to provide a decent salary for himself.

All I am saying is that if you want to charge me $400.00 for something as simple as a tie rod, you are not going to be getting any future business from me. It seems to me that more and more people are going to be googling repairs and attempting those repairs themselves. It's not like a valve job or something labor intensive. It's a TIE rod. So you under charge people on the big jobs and over charge the small jobs to equalize things. I get it!

By the way, I had a thread about the "service vehicle soon" light on my '04 GTO and you didn't chime in, Any insight on that?