[RicksGTO]

Different years of cars got different sets of documentation from PHS. The billing sheet that the '68 owners are showing has not been a part of any of the '69 and '70 PHS packets that I've ever purchased, including the one on my current '69. Rick

[David Jones]

Thanks Rick. Hopefully the PHS will fill us in on why. Jeff, no problem seeing the attachment. Yes on the VIN. I gave them my packet purchase date, VIN# and what I was interested in. We'll see what happens. John, your profile has your car as a 68. Is yours a numbers matching engine, at least as far as the VIN is concerned? (5 posts since Nov 03? You pick your threads carefully don't you. )

[69gtocv]

Ken, now that I'm at home, the attachment shows up fine, thanks for emailing me it as well (and David, I forwarded his email to you before I saw that you also see the attachment). Rick probably has it nailed, must be a 68 only process with PHS. Bummer. Hopefully PHS will confirm that with you David. And to throw another wrench in my serial # theory, my 68 Lemans' 350 serial # is 398604, built 1st week of March 68. Engine code YN. Jeff

[gtoric]

Ricksgto is correct, PHS sends copies of the dealer invoice for 1969 and newer cars. 1968 was the last year for Billing History cards, at least in PHS's records.

[newtoGTO]

Hi David,
Hope you get your build sheet sent confirming your original engine. Yes, my 68 was basically untouched and the PHS documentation matched everything and made sense until the "000000" for the engine number. Never thought much about that, until now, as how would they know which engine number was going to be inserted into the ordered car. The VIN stamping is very light and only a few numbers can be extracted so it would have been great if the PHS documentation had the engine number too. Wonder if others have the "000000" from a Framingham build?
(Few posts, so far, but read tons to get educated for an accurate "restoration" this time. I have many questions but wanted to first contribute before asking questions )

[69gtocv]

Guys, I might have to get PHS docs for my 68 Lemans now. I'd like to get that dealer invoice sheet for it. Never bothered to before since it's been in my family since it was new (my cousin bought it new, left it to me when she passed). Still has only 30,000 on it! Too bad it's a strippy: 350 2bbl, 2 speed auto, manual brakes. Can you imagine what it'd be worth if it were a GTO?

[newtoGTO]

Hi gtoric,
You indicated that PHS sends copies of the "dealer invoice" for 1969 and newer. For my 1968 I received the "microfilm copy" (which others have posted) as well as the dealer sheet from PHS. It was correct and accurate as I have the original bill of sale from Dec 67 for the car (cc hand written as well as typed). Therefore, could it be stated PHS sends for 1968 and newer?

John

[Alex]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by newgto:
Hi David,
Hope you get your build sheet sent confirming your original engine. Yes, my 68 was basically untouched and the PHS documentation matched everything and made sense until the "000000" for the engine number. Never thought much about that, until now, as how would they know which engine number was going to be inserted into the ordered car. The VIN stamping is very light and only a few numbers can be extracted so it would have been great if the PHS documentation had the engine number too. Wonder if others have the "000000" from a Framingham build?
(Few posts, so far, but read tons to get educated for an accurate "restoration" this time. I have many questions but wanted to first contribute before asking questions ) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

new,
Just to let you know I have a '68GTO convert built in Baltimore (invoice 11/20/67) that also has the "000000" in the engine numberspot.
I never thought it was a big deal, since I got the PHS docs BEFORE I purchased the car and made sure the serial # on the engine matched the VIN,and the casting # and date code on the block were period correct
ALL the other Numbers for the carb,distributor,heads,intake were what they should have been and period correct AND (should I start this) the Trans had the correct code & numbers.
I am the second adult owner (over 42) when I purchased the car 12 years ago. First owner was 43 when he purchased it in Jan '68 and kept the car 25 years never changing anything from the original. I purchased it in Feb '93. It was what I had been looking for for over a decade, needed work but was all original.
The next resto is a '68 LeMans convert and not one thing will be original. Go figure ............. Al

[Greg Reid]

David, just to let you know...
I got back with the guy at the dealership and no luck. They couldn't find any license plate surrounds with Boomershine on them.
There are a couple of guys there who had been working for the company since the '70s though and one of them told me that he might have a couple of the "Boomershine Pontiac" nameplates that they used to screw onto the trunklid. He took my number and told me he'd call if he came up with them.
I don't think I'll be screwing one of those to my trunklid but it would still be cool to have one.
BTW, they're no longer known as Boomershine...They sold the place and are now Marietta Pontiac GMC.

[sedan_dad]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">The Motor Unit Number is the number of the engine cast for that year. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
What does that mean?
Shouldn't the vin and the engine unit number match?
I think I may have a matching engine in my 68.
At least based on the 9790071 casting number I located by the distributer.

[goathead68]

sedan_dad;

There will be two numbers on the front of the block. The motor number (or engine unit no.) will be above the two-letter code on the right (passengers side) of the block, just below the head. The motor number is assigned by the factory to the particular block.

The VIN will be on a machined boss, also on the right side, along side the timing chain cover and above the oil pan attachment point. It will actually be a partial VIN, but it should contain the last six numbers of the car's ID number, which can be found on your paperwork or on the ID plate on the dash by the windshield.

So in other words, there should be two sets of numbers and a two letter code on the block solely for ID purposes.

The casting number by the distributor is the engine's part number, and, while it can be used to indicate the year of the block (the part numbers usually changed from year to year), it really isn't a sure way to indicate if the engine in the car is actually numbers matching.

By looking at your billing sheet, your car has an automatic trans, which will make the two letter code either 'YS', 'YZ', 'XP' or 'XW', depending on whether you have the standard 350 horse engine or the H.O. or RA 1 or RA 2 engines.

[Greg Reid]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by sedan_dad:
Shouldn't the vin and the engine unit number match?
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Short answer...No. They won't match.
Assuming that's your copy of the Billing History that you attached above, that number on the passenger side of the block next to the two letter code should match the "Engine Unit Number" on your Billing History.
Also, as goathead68 pointed out, the partial VIN should be down by the timing gear cover on the passenger side. If your "Engine Unit Number" matches, I'd be willing to bet that it's a given that the other (VIN) will match as well.

[brians]

Sedan_dad
Based off of that billing sheet, look for a “YS� directly below the unit number.

Brian

[Greg Reid]

I've got some questions on the options code section on Sedan_dad's billing sheet.
Looking at the boxes with the code numbers in them...What is option "6" in box 41? Would that be fixed headlights? Mine doesn't show a 6 as a choice. Mine is marked 4 for retractable h'lights.
Likewise, what is 6 in box 47. Mine shows a 2 for console. Would 6 be a bench seat since Sedan's car is an automatic?
Block 50 on Sedan's is 3. I don't show 3 and mine is marked 1 for power steering.
And what about "74" through "80"? They are not even on my Options sheet so that I can decode them.

[goathead68]

Greg,

The option '6' listed in box 41 is actually two options; door edge guards (option 2) and retractable headlight covers (option 4). You have to add the two option numbers together. If you have the window sticker, the door edge guards would appear as option 412 and the RHC as option 414.

Option 6 in box 47 would be the console (option 2 or option 472) and the electric clock (option 4 or option 474).

Box 50 is power steering (option 1 or 501) and power brakes (option 2 or 502).

I don't know what '754' means on his billing sheet.

[Greg Reid]

Thanks a lot. I never knew about adding codes. This thread has taught most everybody something they didn't know.
Now if anyone knows how to decode 74 through 80. I've got a 742 and a 754 left to decod.

[goathead68]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Greg Reid:
Now if anyone knows how to decode 74 through 80. I've got a 742 and a 754 left to decod. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Greg,

Besides the obvious options, what other stuff is on your car that you can't account for by reading the billing sheet? That may be one way to figure those numbers out. You could fire off an e-mail to PHS, too. If (or when) you get an answer, let us know. I'm curious myself.

And I'll agree, a lot was learned in this thread.

[Greg Reid]

Well let's see...The only thing I can think of right off hand is the in-dash tach in place of the clock. I haven't found that on my option sheet.

[gtoric]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by newgto:
Hi gtoric,
You indicated that PHS sends copies of the "dealer invoice" for 1969 and newer. For my 1968 I received the "microfilm copy" (which others have posted) as well as the dealer sheet from PHS. It was correct and accurate as I have the original bill of sale from Dec 67 for the car (cc hand written as well as typed). Therefore, could it be stated PHS sends for 1968 and newer?

John </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I've not seen a dealer invoice for '68, but I've not seen documentation from every plant for the entire model year either. As goathead68 and Greg Reid have shown, the Billing History Card is the most common documentation for '68. Are you saying that PHS sent a copy of the Dealer Invoice for your '68 or are you refering to the copy of the dealer order sheet? I believe that every packet from PHS includes a copy of the appropriated dealer wholesale order sheet. PHS uses this to help you decode the BHC or Invoice.

[sedan_dad]

I want to thank everyone for all the info.
I tried to get to the front of the block today.
It's not very easy to see is it?
I'll have to try later on a warmer day with a brighter light.I'm not too conserned about it having matching numbers.It runs strong and looks cool.Matching numbers only count if you selling I guess.No plans to do that right away.
Bill