[er455]

Ok I have a fresh turbo motor build and now have noticed my coolant level has been disappearing slowly so today I noticed that by valve cover oil fill cap has got milk shake residue on it so I took the valve cover off and more milkshake is on the inside cover .... i then checked the tour que on the head studs and they are tight at 100 # ...I put the cosmetic gaskets on dry and don’t know what to do now , should i try to use a block sealer ? Is there a better gasket maybe copper ? I have only been running around on the street no 1/4 mile passes yet been running 12# of boost on E85 Very frustrating así really have not been able to enjoy this car after a lot of build time any advise is apriciated.

[GTOGEORGE]

Originally Posted by er455

Ok I have a fresh turbo motor build and now have noticed my coolant level has been disappearing slowly so today I noticed that by valve cover oil fill cap has got milk shake residue on it so I took the valve cover off and more milkshake is on the inside cover .... i then checked the tour que on the head studs and they are tight at 100 # ...I put the cosmetic gaskets on dry and don’t know what to do now , should i try to use a block sealer ? Is there a better gasket maybe copper ? I have only been running around on the street no 1/4 mile passes yet been running 12# of boost on E85 Very frustrating así really have not been able to enjoy this car after a lot of build time any advise is apriciated.

That could be just condensation.......if you drain your oil and it looks FUNKY then you probably have a problem.


GTO George

[er455]

Losing coolant though

[n2ogpsj462]

Did you spray them with anything? Thought I remember reading on the turbo forums that it helps for potential coolant and oil leaks if you don't have that magical deck and head surface cometic wants.

[er455]

No I put them on dry ... what about all the block sealers out there

[n2ogpsj462]

I think you know the answer to that! Assuming your talking about the bars leak scrap or something comparable. Blue devil works incredibly well on combustion chamber leaks........ in daily driver Toyota's etc!

[er455]

So my options are take it apart again and either spray them with halo mar or copper spray and try them again ? Or try a copper gasket ? Am I missing any other options ??

[n2ogpsj462]

If you verify your losing it in the deck somewhere. Certainly can't keep boosting cylinders held together with an additive. I'm not suggesting not spraying them is your issue. I'm considering cosmetics when I put my motor back together and the consensus seems to be spray them with some going as far as separating and spraying each layer. I'd be pissed to if I spent 200 and couldn't get them to seal. What thickness and bore size did you go with?

[er455]

It’s a 455 with .035 over bore and the thickness is stock .048 thousands thick I have had the 6x heads checked with magnaglux and cam back good maybe they missed a crack some where?? I am super pissed to have to take this apart again and what’s worse not knowing what else I could do better the next time , I mean I bought he best gaskets available , had them machined flat , using arp studs ,what else can I do ??

[n2ogpsj462]

That's my exact motor and I just popped mine out and apart because of fluctuating oil pressure. Found 3 lobes going flat so now I'm into it for a minor rebuild as some metal got in the bearings. Saw some minor detonation in the upper rod bearings that likely happen initially trying to tune this carb (made a few hits without the waste gate hooked up ��)

Anyway all this has me thinking I 'NEED' to make upgrades where if I didn't loose the cam I would still be driving. My 8 yr old felpro 1016s are spotless. For the money and low boost maybe throw those on? Sure your torque wrench is accurate? Maybe go to 110 and see if it seals up? You def won't stress arp studs or cast iron heads

[mgarblik]

Copper head gaskets don't live very well with antifreeze and water mix. If your running just water, they do better. But for copper to really work, you need to machine an o-ring groove in the head for the wire ring and a receiver groove in the block. Then you are really married to the copper gaskets. I think the Cometic gaskets would be a better choice. Spraying them with Copper coat or similar sealer may help them seal. They require an extremely flat and smooth surface to seal 100%. Make absolutely sure your head bolts are not bottoming out. If using studs, this doesn't apply of course. If you pull the heads, I strongly recommend having them pressure tested vs magnetic particle inspection. We are dealing with 40-50 year old heads, and tiny leaks are very possible, especially if ported. I have some very effective sealer for cast iron, but is requires a clean casting inside and out and the heads removed. Kind of like hard block, you block off all the outlets and fill the casting with this stuff and let it sit a few hours, then pour out and let it dry. It's a ceramic sealer and works well. Bunch of work involved. Good luck with it.

[JSPONT]

Cometic does NOT require any copper coat. They do require a finish on the heads and block of RA 50 or better which is pretty smooth. I have installed 3 sets so far, dry, no issues.
Were the heads milled? was the block milled??

[n2ogpsj462]

Of course they're not. Can't sell 200$ gaskets and say they only work on mirror finish decks unless you spray them. They also don't say you have to o-ring the block for copper to work properly but when experienced guys like Mike say to, you listen. If you google it you will find a ton of incredibly happy cometic customers but also a lot of guy saying their head bolts are steaming coolant and just not sealing in general which lead to people spraying them. Hondas use mls head gaskets (others too I'm sure but my experience is Hondas) and they say to give me a nice coating of copper.

Even if your deck and heads were milled you likely are no where near ra 50 unless you specified to your machinist.

[charlie66]

You don't need any copper spray . I have had conversations with cometic on the phone and they say do not coat them. I use them dry and have 36 psi with zero problems. Just like mgarblik said , check that your studs are not running out of thread and not clamping correctly, you can put a extra washer on them . Before you take it apart you should do a leak down test on all cylinders to see if you're getting any pressure in the coolant . If you are you will see a rise in the water level looking into the radiator with the cap off or it might just blow the water out as you apply the air pressure. depends how bad it is. If its good , do the same test with the piston all the way down just in case its the cylinder wall that cracked.. I torque my studs to 110 because when I called ARP they told me to.. Its possible that you're lifting the head under boost. Have you ever noticed etra coolant in your overflow? Or if you don't have one you would have coolant all over your engine compartment.. Just some more ideas for you because ive been through it before ....

The next time you buy gaskets get .041" its a better quench .048" is a little too thick...

[charlie66]

Originally Posted by n2ogpsj462

Of course they're not. Can't sell 200$ gaskets and say they only work on mirror finish decks unless you spray them. They also don't say you have to o-ring the block for copper to work properly but when experienced guys like Mike say to, you listen. If you google it you will find a ton of incredibly happy cometic customers but also a lot of guy saying their head bolts are steaming coolant and just not sealing in general which lead to people spraying them. Hondas use mls head gaskets (others too I'm sure but my experience is Hondas) and they say to give me a nice coating of copper.

Even if your deck and heads were milled you likely are no where near ra 50 unless you specified to your machinist.

I've had 46 psi to mine with no copper or anything . I don't have any head gasket issues! You don't need to coat them! I run around on the street with 30 psi every day. lol

[charlie66]

Have you ever done a cranking pressure test? What is your cranking pressure. Im curious because if its more them 150 it will clear something up for me...

[JSPONT]

Originally Posted by n2ogpsj462

Of course they're not. Can't sell 200$ gaskets and say they only work on mirror finish decks unless you spray them. They also don't say you have to o-ring the block for copper to work properly but when experienced guys like Mike say to, you listen. If you google it you will find a ton of incredibly happy cometic customers but also a lot of guy saying their head bolts are steaming coolant and just not sealing in general which lead to people spraying them. Hondas use mls head gaskets (others too I'm sure but my experience is Hondas) and they say to give me a nice coating of copper.

Even if your deck and heads were milled you likely are no where near ra 50 unless you specified to your machinist.

That's why when you are building a turbo car you make sure ra 50 or better. I did.
I am not speaking from anything but my personal experience with comectic gaskets on my turbo car..

Head studs are they way to go. Just my .02

[er455]

Thanks guys for all the advise I will try to torque to 110# right now there at 100 # , ok what’s wierd is the oil dip stick does not have milkshake only under valve covers and I am on e85 which absorbs water also no bubbles in radiator and no smoke from exhaust and car runs good just losing coolant and no coolant is on the ground or outside of motor .

[Tom Vaught]

Some of the cometic gaskets for the Pontiac were designed with a channel in the gasket that should not have been there.

Luhn Performance brought it to their Engineers attention.

The design will cause water leakage over time.

Need to discuss with Luhn Performance and Cometic Gaskets to see if you have some of those "Flawed" head gaskets.

AND THANK MARK AT LUHN PERFORMANCE FOR FINDING THE GASKET ISSUE.

Tom V.

[taff2]

Well you shouldn't be lifting the heads at just 12psi,. I personally wouldn't use any MLS gasket without a sprayed on coat of Copperseal or similar. Maybe as Mike said ,you have a pinhole leak in the heads, a tiny amount of water going into the combustion chamber won't necessarily show in the exhaust. Try running the car until it's warm then leave it sit overnight, then next morning pull out all the plugs and get someone to spin the engine on the starter- you'll see water spray out of any cylinders that have water in them.
All my Pontiac engines have had a bit of milky residue under the valve covers if you're just cruising around or idling a lot.