[aronhk_md]

Looks incredible....I'm drooling.

[RAIV-Z]

Nice build, can't wait to see some dyno numbers!

[BruceWilkie]

Good to see progress.

BTW a diode will prevent feedback. My Accel box was getting feed via the altenator and kept motor running even though voltage dropped to 3 volts. I had originally used a relay figuring that would kill power to ignition and pump and the feed back was sufficient to keep it energized as well. Cut the switch... motor "coughed" and "switched back on. I unplugged power feed from fuse. Tried just a switch and thats when I found I had feedback.

[jdw_poncho]

Originally Posted by BruceWilkie

Good to see progress.

BTW a diode will prevent feedback. My Accel box was getting feed via the altenator and kept motor running even though voltage dropped to 3 volts. I had originally used a relay figuring that would kill power to ignition and pump and the feed back was sufficient to keep it energized as well. Cut the switch... motor "coughed" and "switched back on. I unplugged power feed from fuse. Tried just a switch and thats when I found I had feedback.

For the test run without a alternator, I wasnt expecting to get that much feedback from the ignition box. When you dont want the motor running, 30 seconds seems like a lifetime. I'll just keep the wires seprated by a toggle switch for now.

[bryansMtngto]

very nice looking set up so far. Look foward to more pics as you go. Toying with idea of doing twin turbos on my 77 T/A.

[aasmilyy]

your car looks awesome! Greet work!

[jdw_poncho]

Thanks guys. Progess has slowed down as work picked up. I think I finally have this weekend off so I can make some progress with the cage. I havent touched it in 5 weeks and its starting to show.

[jdw_poncho]

After being up 30 hours straight we got the engine dyno'd. Made some big power but had a few problems. Spend at least half the dyno session getting the engine wired and hooked up. Next time I go I'll have a better understanding what is needed to help save the time.

They spent some time trying get the FAST system tuned and capable of running the engine on methanol. Then started making pulls while trying to keep it fat enough. It seemed like he was constatly adding fuel and it would make more power.

We proved that a vacuum pump will not work on this engine. I seen people run their engines with it and without vac pumps so I decided to try it. It pushed oil out anywhere it could.

Finally made a few strong pulls. From the picture you can see it was making good power but we couldnt control the boost. They told me my exhuast housing are way to small and the waste gates didnt work very well.

It was blowing exhaust out the gate it just seemed like we couldnt get enough out to control it. This was the best run in all, then the bad stuff started happening. Next pull power was down about 100hp at the same 4500rpm. We stopped and pulled the plugs looked over the data and realized the fuel pressure was jumping around a little bit. After checking that out we decided to make another pull. This time the upper hose blew off and sprayed water every where at around 5400rpm. Hopefully its just a head gasket failure. But it ended my day with only 2 hours left in my dyno session. I brought a gasket but I didnt think I could get it done that quickly.

EGT's were staying good all day and never got above 1080 degrees. The last run we were worried about watching the fuel pressure and both of missed the egt's going over 1300 degrees. But it happened so fast that most likely I still would have had damage.

After getting some sleep today I'm starting to pull the motor down. All I know is I'll have to sell these turbo's and step up to a mid-size frame or a big single.

But you have to admit 1500ft/lbs of torque at 4400rpm's would make a hell of a street engine for someone if they wanted to buy the turbo's.

What we figured happened was the injectors were losing their signal or quit driving because the fuel pressure was jumping from 73lbs up to 100lbs within a few rpm's. Thats where the 1300 egt's came from on the last run.

[bankbook]

Sorry to hear the bead news.

On the Vac pump...Did Morris comment on the need for one? It has been a debate amongst the turbo guys for a long time. It has worked for me so far but with relatively low levels of boost.

What size Turbos are recomended now? I would think 88-91 range. My 106 seems like a good fit for the 535 so far.

[RAIV-Z]

Nice low RPM HP\TQ number there. What size cam do you have in your 512 IAII?

[jdw_poncho]

Originally Posted by bankbook

Sorry to hear the bead news.

On the Vac pump...Did Morris comment on the need for one? It has been a debate amongst the turbo guys for a long time. It has worked for me so far but with relatively low levels of boost.

What size Turbos are recomended now? I would think 88-91 range. My 106 seems like a good fit for the 535 so far.

He was surprised to see it on there and told me he never suggests using one on a boosted application. But, I made a mistake that he found. I had the hoses hooked up wrong. I even marked them when I tested it in the garage, I guess I got in a hurry and swapped them. But I was still pushing oil out.


I called and talked with precison and they recommend a 114 or twin mid frame 94's. I'm debating on building a smaller cubic inch motor or buying larger turbo's. By the time I buy a new block and pistons I'm not far off from turbo's, headers, and all the cold side tubing.

[jdw_poncho]

Originally Posted by RAIV-Z

Nice low RPM HP\TQ number there. What size cam do you have in your 512 IAII?

I dont have the cam card in front of me but I remember it was low .700" lift. Motor sounded nice and smooth and idled at 1100 rpm's. I think I could drive this thing around town without much trouble. It had instant throttle response and actually it didnt sound that strong until he hit the throttle.

[Tom Vaught]

Originally Posted by jdw_poncho

After being up 30 hours straight we got the engine dyno'd. Made some big power but had a few problems. Spend at least half the dyno session getting the engine wired and hooked up. Next time I go I'll have a better understanding what is needed to help save the time.

They spent some time trying get the FAST system tuned and capable of running the engine on methanol. Then started making pulls while trying to keep it fat enough. It seemed like he was constantly adding fuel and it would make more power.

We proved that a vacuum pump will not work on this engine. I seen people run their engines with it and without vac pumps so I decided to try it. It pushed oil out anywhere it could.

Finally made a few strong pulls. From the picture you can see it was making good power but we couldnt control the boost. They told me my exhaust housing are way to small and the waste gates didn't work very well.

It was blowing exhaust out the gate it just seemed like we couldn't get enough out to control it. This was the best run in all, then the bad stuff started happening. Next pull power was down about 100hp at the same 4500rpm. We stopped and pulled the plugs looked over the data and realized the fuel pressure was jumping around a little bit. After checking that out we decided to make another pull. This time the upper hose blew off and sprayed water every where at around 5400rpm. Hopefully its just a head gasket failure. But it ended my day with only 2 hours left in my dyno session. I brought a gasket but I didnt think I could get it done that quickly.

EGT's were staying good all day and never got above 1080 degrees. The last run we were worried about watching the fuel pressure and both of missed the egt's going over 1300 degrees. But it happened so fast that most likely I still would have had damage.

After getting some sleep today I'm starting to pull the motor down. All I know is I'll have to sell these turbo's and step up to a mid-size frame or a big single.

But you have to admit 1500ft/lbs of torque at 4400rpm's would make a hell of a street engine for someone if they wanted to buy the turbo's.

What we figured happened was the injectors were losing their signal or quit driving because the fuel pressure was jumping from 73lbs up to 100lbs within a few rpm's. Thats where the 1300 egt's came from on the last run.

Sorry to hear about your head gasket issue. See that you were running the engine at Steve Morris Dyno.

Come back with your refreshed engine and make some better numbers with the right turbos/ turbine housings.

Tom Vaught

[bryansMtngto]

working on finishing up my motor combo. and have beening reading both plus and minus about vacuum pumps on a boosted motor. Would think you would want one to help relieve any pressurizing caused by blowby when boosting?? Is my train of thought wrong? or is it vacuum pumps cant keep up and its better to just use an evac system tied into the headers? or a route breathers to a canister??

[jdw_poncho]

Originally Posted by bryansMtngto

working on finishing up my motor combo. and have beening reading both plus and minus about vacuum pumps on a boosted motor. Would think you would want one to help relieve any pressurizing caused by blowby when boosting?? Is my train of thought wrong? or is it vacuum pumps cant keep up and its better to just use an evac system tied into the headers? or a route breathers to a canister??

After Steve realized my hoses were on backwards it still leaked oil. I dont think the pump was keeping up. After I put my engine back together I'll install a breather system.

[Tom Vaught]

Just My Opinion. Take a look at the Plumbing on the Butler/Quillen 63 Tempest engine.

Might be hard to see but what you have going on is:

There are LARGE braided lines coming from the oil pan and going to the rear of the valve covers. On the other end of the valve coves are lines going to a large Puke Can with multiple air filters.

This is the way that it works, IMO.

Oil and methanol are mixed by the combustion process/ windage from the crankshaft.

The oil and methanol mix is under pressure in the crankcase and needs to get out of the engine.

The large lines from the pan to the rear of the valve covers transports the oil and methanol mix up to the valve covers.

The oil (being heavier) falls out of suspension in the air flow passing thru the valve covers and collects in the valve covers.

The methanol and air being lighter continues out of the valve covers to the puke tank.

The methanol falls out of suspension in the puke tank and the air then exits through the air filters to atmosphere.

This whole process keeps most of the oil in the engine, collects and removes the methanol from the oil and stores it for disposal, and relieves the pressure in the crankcase/ heads. ALL GOOD THINGS.

Tom Vaught

[Travis Q]

Jeff -

Those 60mm wastegates are plenty big.

I can see in the picture why you can't get the boost down. Call me when you get a chance....

TQ
256-476-1053

[jdw_poncho]

Originally Posted by Tom Vaught

Just My Opinion. Take a look at the Plumbing on the Butler/Quillen 63 Tempest engine.

Might be hard to see but what you have going on is:

There are LARGE braided lines coming from the oil pan and going to the rear of the valve covers. On the other end of the valve coves are lines going to a large Puke Can with multiple air filters.

This is the way that it works, IMO.

Oil and methanol are mixed by the combustion process/ windage from the crankshaft.

The oil and methanol mix is under pressure in the crankcase and needs to get out of the engine.

The large lines from the pan to the rear of the valve covers transports the oil and methanol mix up to the valve covers.

The oil (being heavier) falls out of suspension in the air flow passing thru the valve covers and collects in the valve covers.

The methanol and air being lighter continues out of the valve covers to the puke tank.

The methanol falls out of suspension in the puke tank and the air then exits through the air filters to atmosphere.

This whole process keeps most of the oil in the engine, collects and removes the methanol from the oil and stores it for disposal, and relieves the pressure in the crankcase/ heads. ALL GOOD THINGS.

Tom Vaught

Thanks for the info, I was looking at pictures of that engine the other day but couldnt see the lines coming from the oil pan. Makes sense now.

These turbo's should still be able to produce 1800-2000hp. If I built new headers to re-locate my waste gate what problems would excess back pressure cause? They have the .96ar housings on them.

I took the engine apart tonight and found a torched head. Looks like it cut a small hole into coolant passage on the #6 piston. I believe that has been repaired in the past so I'm guessing it hadnt been heat treated. I'll fix it and put them back on a N/A engine. They held 1300hp so I'm sure they will be fine with a good tune in a N/A application.

One thing I noticed was a discolored ring about 3/8" around the top of the cylinder wall. It feels like there is some texture to it and its orange in color. Is that from the copper head gaskets? All the plugs looked good before the damage happened. Today I went through them with a magnifying glass and couldnt see any spec's of metal like what is in the cylinders. I looked at the pistons really closely and they look fine, no damage showing on the tops.
Pistons are .005" out the hole with a .081" head gasket.

[jdw_poncho]

Originally Posted by Travis Q

Jeff -

Those 60mm wastegates are plenty big.

I can see in the picture why you can't get the boost down. Call me when you get a chance....

TQ
256-476-1053

I'll call you tomorrow.

Thanks

[rodneybutler]

I used a vacuum pump on my 440" gas engine in the 65. Ran up to 40 psi and still had vacuum at the stripe. Tried it on the 482 on alcohol, same problem you have. So I added another. Two Moroso 4 vane pumps! Still had positive crankcase pressure when boost came up. Just properly vent the engine, you'll be fine. Tom was right on the explanation.