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Old 07-26-2019, 01:54 PM
dans1967 dans1967 is offline
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Default timing question. can it change when the car is hot causing restart problem

After short drive car will not start (400 engine, tripower setup)normal temp 175.
Car seemed to burp thru center carb while trying to start. New battery, plenty of crank. MSD ignition rebuilt weights and springs.

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Old 07-27-2019, 12:46 AM
Goatracer1 Goatracer1 is offline
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Engine doesn't crank or cranks and won't start?

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Old 07-30-2019, 06:29 PM
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Frank R Frank R is offline
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If your asking if the timing changes when the engine is hot the answer is no. Hot start problems can be caused by running too much initial timing. What initial timing are you using? Other issues may be causing your problem. A worn starter or insufficient engine grounds Can be the problem. Years ago I used a reproduction battery and it didn’t have enough CCA for a good hot restart. I replaced the battery and things were fine until the starter started to wear. . I replaced the starter and it cranked fast at any temperature.

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Old 07-31-2019, 01:36 AM
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True. The faults that you can get away with on a cold start can leave you sitting with a hot engine. Just baking the old big starter can sometimes be enough with everything else in fair shape. Add in a questionable battery, smaller cables, corroded terminals, or a little too much initial timing and you will be camped out for awhile.

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Old 07-31-2019, 09:40 AM
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I had a hot start issue being caused by my advance weights sticking inside the distributor. Turned out they had some light rust on them and the springs wouldn't retract them to initial timing. Chased my tail on that one blaming it on the carb. Easy fix.

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69 GTO Liberty Blue/dark blue 467, 850 Holley, T2, Edelbrock Dport 310cfm w Ram Air manifolds, HFT 245/251D .561/.594L, T400, 9" w 3.50s 3905lbs 11.59@ 114, 1.57/ 60'
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Old 07-31-2019, 06:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank R View Post
If your asking if the timing changes when the engine is hot the answer is no. Hot start problems can be caused by running too much initial timing. What initial timing are you using? Other issues may be causing your problem. A worn starter or insufficient engine grounds Can be the problem. Years ago I used a reproduction battery and it didn’t have enough CCA for a good hot restart. I replaced the battery and things were fine until the starter started to wear. . I replaced the starter and it cranked fast at any temperature.
I respectfully disagree. I had this same exact problem with my '65 GTO. When it got hot, the distributor shaft would stay in the advanced position due to heat expansion and excessive varnish build up on the shaft. Easily verified by removing the distributor cap and turning the rotor back to the retarded position. The fix was removing and disassembling the distributor, and cleaning the shaft and housing of varnish. No issues since.

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Old 08-10-2019, 10:16 AM
dans1967 dans1967 is offline
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Finally got back to the car. My initial timing is 7, just checked. Ran engine, warmed to normal temp then tried to restart. Starter motor turned over slowly. Labored very hard.. battery is new and had full charge. I am looking at changing out the starter. I do run headers. What is a good replacement

Thanks in advance
Dan

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Old 08-10-2019, 10:37 AM
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VERY low initial timing there. No headers here but my Powermaster w heat shield has served me well for 12 yrs/35k miles

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69 GTO Liberty Blue/dark blue 467, 850 Holley, T2, Edelbrock Dport 310cfm w Ram Air manifolds, HFT 245/251D .561/.594L, T400, 9" w 3.50s 3905lbs 11.59@ 114, 1.57/ 60'
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Old 08-10-2019, 01:37 PM
dans1967 dans1967 is offline
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I had to put new weights and springs because of light rust buildup.

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Old 08-10-2019, 02:14 PM
dans1967 dans1967 is offline
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Which powermaster are you using

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Old 08-10-2019, 02:28 PM
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I have a good sampling of IMI, Summit, and Power Master mini starters on my vehicles and they have all performed very well and lived a long life. The IMI is still working great that I purchased in the mid 90's when my stock hi-torque starter gave up in the staging lanes and cut my day short.

Good point that sticking weights would keep the timing advanced and really increase the load on any starter.

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1967 original owner Tyro Blue/black top 4-speed HO GTO with all the original parts stored safely away -- 1965 2+2 survivor AC auto -- 1965 Catalina Safari Wagon in progress.
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Old 08-10-2019, 04:03 PM
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Dan, not sure which Powermaster but it cost $200 12 yrs ago. It worked great on my 400 w 12/13 initial degrees and works fine on my 467 w timing locked out at 37 degrees (constantly 37, w no advance at all). Hopefully the weights and springs helped to return timing back to initial, most agree heavy stock springs and weights work best.

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Chris D
69 GTO Liberty Blue/dark blue 467, 850 Holley, T2, Edelbrock Dport 310cfm w Ram Air manifolds, HFT 245/251D .561/.594L, T400, 9" w 3.50s 3905lbs 11.59@ 114, 1.57/ 60'
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Old 09-25-2019, 10:40 PM
dans1967 dans1967 is offline
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Update; Put in a summit mini starter, wrapped with heat shield, replaced the timing chain and sprockets, found a loose ground wire, removed the rev limiter chip from the MSD unit, set the timing at 13 and now it starts and runs great. Lots of little problems contributed toward hard restarts. It now starts easily and the engine runs strong.

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