#21  
Old 08-18-2019, 04:07 PM
trishieldchief's Avatar
trishieldchief trishieldchief is offline
Chief Ponti-yacker
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 931
Default

If you have for example,one of the 288 Oshawa built 1970 GTO Judges, like I do, which was built in Canada and delivered new in Canada, to a Canadian Pontiac Buick dealership, there is NO PHS, only GM of Canada documentation.

If you have a 1970 Oshawa built GTO Judge delivered new to a Pontiac Buick dealership in US than you will have both PHS and GM of Canada documentation available to you.
__________________
Rich Johns

Owner/Operator of Pure Stock Auto Restorations Inc.
www.purestockauto.com

1969 GTO Judge Ram Air IV M21 4 speed 3:90
1970 GTO Judge Ram Air III M21 4 speed 3:90 Oshawa Built
1970 GSX Stage 1 M21 4 Speed 3.64 # 67 of 678 Original Paint
1970 GSX Stage 1 Auto 3.64 # 603 of 678 12.44@109.73 mph 2011 Buick GS Nats Pure Stock, 12.71@110.64 mph PSMCDR 2011
1970 GS Stage 1 Convertible Auto 3:64 12.71@109.15 mph PSMCDR 2009
1970 GS 455 M21 4 Speed 3.42
1987 GN Astro Roof
  #22  
Old 08-18-2019, 05:14 PM
Baron Von Zeppelin Baron Von Zeppelin is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 6,345
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benlor View Post
... 4 speed ram air 3 non judge 69 gto convertible ... 31 options
Would definitely want the USA version PHS Invoice for this car .
It has a high potential of originally being a PMD Internal Use, PMD Executive or Zone Executive vehicle - amongst other unique possibilities also.

Only the PHS Invoice will give the needed clues.
If you do so , include a message asking that they comb archive to see if it is a multi-invoice vehicle / possible PMD or Zone Company Car .

It doesn't mean much to the retail value of the car,
the car itself determines that.
But it makes an interesting pedigree
  #23  
Old 08-30-2019, 03:41 PM
north's Avatar
north north is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Wells Maine, O’ahu and Montreal
Posts: 5,068
Default

There were 249 manual trans RA3 setups in ragtops in 69 GTO's. I don't recall the exact breakdown of Judges but say 2/3 of Judge ragtops were manuals (as was the case in judge hardtops) so you'd have high 100's of non Judge RA3 manual convertibles. Since about 10% of GTO ragtops were sold in Canada your GTO was probably one of 15-20 sold in Canada with a RA3 manual (almost all the manuals were 4 speeds rather than 3).

Since all 69 ragtops sold in Canada were built in Baltimore you should be able to get both US and Canadian documentation. The Canadian docs only include the engine number for Canadian built cars but still worth getting both.

In general Canadian buyers ordered less options than American buyers back then but inversely there seems to be a percentage of American built specialty cars (GTO's, Fbirds etc) that were heavily optioned in Canada. 69 was the first year dealers in Canada stocked American made Firebirds and GTO's. In earlier years you had to special order them and they were very expensive in Canada so they had an exotic quality there, hence why some were loaded up, rich guys showing off.

A 69 GTO in Canada looked like no other car in the road, no 68's were sold (except a very few special imports at high price) and no LeMans' or Tempests to dilute the unique body shape. It was like owning a Viper in the 90's, you looked like a movie star in a brand new 69 GTO in Canada.
__________________
My Break Away Squad
1969 Fbird TA Hardtop
1969 Fbird Sprint & 400 Convertibles
1969 LeMans 4dr Hardtop & Convertible
1969 GTO (Hardtop & Convertible)
1969 GTO Judge Hardtop
1969 Cat Convertibles (2 of them)
1969 Ventura 2 Seat Wagon
1969 Executive 4dr Sedan
1969 Bonnie 3 Seat Wagon (2 of them)
1969 Bonnie Brougham 4dr Hardtop & Convertible
1969 Grand Prix SJ's (2 of them)
1969 2+2 2dr Hardtop (Canadian model)
  #24  
Old 08-31-2019, 09:22 AM
Brewster's Avatar
Brewster Brewster is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: North Woods of Wisconsin
Posts: 4,454
Default

Out of the 108 1969 rags only 29 had the th400.

Breakdown by Engine in Convertible

WS code RA III Manual Trans = 74

WW code RA IV Manual Trans = 5

YZ code RA III Auto Trans = 29

XP code RA IV Auto Trans = 0
  #25  
Old 08-31-2019, 03:37 PM
Ram4king's Avatar
Ram4king Ram4king is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,631
Default

I have 1 of the 29
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	20190810_134824.jpg
Views:	67
Size:	143.3 KB
ID:	519134  
  #26  
Old 08-31-2019, 03:46 PM
north's Avatar
north north is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Wells Maine, O’ahu and Montreal
Posts: 5,068
Default

Same color scheme as my GTO ragtop
__________________
My Break Away Squad
1969 Fbird TA Hardtop
1969 Fbird Sprint & 400 Convertibles
1969 LeMans 4dr Hardtop & Convertible
1969 GTO (Hardtop & Convertible)
1969 GTO Judge Hardtop
1969 Cat Convertibles (2 of them)
1969 Ventura 2 Seat Wagon
1969 Executive 4dr Sedan
1969 Bonnie 3 Seat Wagon (2 of them)
1969 Bonnie Brougham 4dr Hardtop & Convertible
1969 Grand Prix SJ's (2 of them)
1969 2+2 2dr Hardtop (Canadian model)
  #27  
Old 08-31-2019, 05:31 PM
trishieldchief's Avatar
trishieldchief trishieldchief is offline
Chief Ponti-yacker
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 931
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ram4king View Post
I have 1 of the 29
Love it, Expresso Brown is a great color on a 69 GTO.
__________________
Rich Johns

Owner/Operator of Pure Stock Auto Restorations Inc.
www.purestockauto.com

1969 GTO Judge Ram Air IV M21 4 speed 3:90
1970 GTO Judge Ram Air III M21 4 speed 3:90 Oshawa Built
1970 GSX Stage 1 M21 4 Speed 3.64 # 67 of 678 Original Paint
1970 GSX Stage 1 Auto 3.64 # 603 of 678 12.44@109.73 mph 2011 Buick GS Nats Pure Stock, 12.71@110.64 mph PSMCDR 2011
1970 GS Stage 1 Convertible Auto 3:64 12.71@109.15 mph PSMCDR 2009
1970 GS 455 M21 4 Speed 3.42
1987 GN Astro Roof
  #28  
Old 08-31-2019, 06:46 PM
muscle_collector's Avatar
muscle_collector muscle_collector is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Tulsa
Posts: 3,443
Default

like that color combo. I had one of the other 29 sold it a few years ago. carousel red black bench seat auto
  #29  
Old 09-01-2019, 09:43 AM
Brewster's Avatar
Brewster Brewster is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: North Woods of Wisconsin
Posts: 4,454
Default

Here is the one in my garage and is 1 of 29 units built. It sports no console option thus automatic on the tree. I am slowly getting her back together from her long nap sitting in a neighbors garage since 1976.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	2018-10-25 13.47.48.jpg
Views:	57
Size:	84.8 KB
ID:	519163  
  #30  
Old 09-01-2019, 10:02 AM
muscle_collector's Avatar
muscle_collector muscle_collector is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Tulsa
Posts: 3,443
Default

Brewster is it a bucket column or a bench column
  #31  
Old 09-01-2019, 10:20 AM
north's Avatar
north north is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Wells Maine, O’ahu and Montreal
Posts: 5,068
Default

I can see a bucket seat headrest in the photo.
__________________
My Break Away Squad
1969 Fbird TA Hardtop
1969 Fbird Sprint & 400 Convertibles
1969 LeMans 4dr Hardtop & Convertible
1969 GTO (Hardtop & Convertible)
1969 GTO Judge Hardtop
1969 Cat Convertibles (2 of them)
1969 Ventura 2 Seat Wagon
1969 Executive 4dr Sedan
1969 Bonnie 3 Seat Wagon (2 of them)
1969 Bonnie Brougham 4dr Hardtop & Convertible
1969 Grand Prix SJ's (2 of them)
1969 2+2 2dr Hardtop (Canadian model)
  #32  
Old 09-01-2019, 10:30 AM
Brewster's Avatar
Brewster Brewster is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: North Woods of Wisconsin
Posts: 4,454
Default

It is a zone car that sports buckets,
  #33  
Old 09-05-2019, 03:04 AM
kyle_blake's Avatar
kyle_blake kyle_blake is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Vancouver,BC,CAN
Posts: 1,528
Default

It's my understanding that when a GOT built in USA then comes into Canada it had to be federally imported. Those microfiche manifests ,I believe , were bought off that agency responsible for maintaining them. Hence why they were and are allowed to sell the info, (RE-TYPED in their interpretation ) and on their letter head.

Then you also hope to find build sheets on gas tanks, seats etc.

Sure is nice when you buy a car that both!

In the USA I believe if the CANADIAN built car comes in then FEDERAL GOVT provided the Canadian microfiche to PHS.

So you obtain your PHS and again hope to find build sheets all over the car.

I think the same goes for USA BORN, USA SOLD, records of the microfische from factory sent to PHS.

Do I have it all sorta right?

I've heard many people say that a Canadian GM of Canada and Canadian car is more valuable then US due to the documentation history process? I fail to see how given what I've said and any seller can obtain regardless of origin of the car?
__________________
69 Gto, 390 posi gears,th400 w/jim hand converter/406 pontiac/#64 HEADS/ 10:1 compression/ 180 PSI with/ TRW 160 thou domes / hooker headers 1 7/8, PRW 1.5 rockers, 405 Crower Springs, Holley 750 vac with proform upgrade, torker I on points, JA coded rally 2's, / 284 H Crane
  #34  
Old 09-05-2019, 08:07 AM
Baron Von Zeppelin Baron Von Zeppelin is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 6,345
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kyle_blake View Post
... I've heard many people say that a Canadian GM of Canada and Canadian car is more valuable then US due to the documentation history process? I fail to see how given what I've said and any seller can obtain regardless of origin of the car?
I wouldn't believe that about a Pontiac,
but any other brand - i would say Yes .

Such as special interest Chevrolets.
Canadian sold examples are the only ones that can be documented to verify option packages // content.
  #35  
Old 09-05-2019, 04:53 PM
RAIVJUMB's Avatar
RAIVJUMB RAIVJUMB is offline
Chief Ponti-yacker
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Back home in MA
Posts: 692
Default

I had/and know where one of the RA III convertible stick cars is. Matador Red on red white top 4 spd car non hideaway car without a ton of other options. A friend has it now, nicely restored car.
__________________
69 GTOx2
69 Judge CR 4SPD
70 RAIV Auto Judge
71 GT-37:usa2
71 T/A WHT AUTO
71 T/A LB 4SPD
72 T/A WHT 4spd
74 SD T/A Admiralty Blue Auto
others that reside in the barn too
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:39 AM.

 

About Us

The PY Online Forums is the largest online gathering of Pontiac enthusiasts anywhere in the world. Founded in 1991, it was also the first online forum for people to gather and talk about their Pontiacs. Since then, it has become the mecca of Pontiac technical data and knowledge that no other place can surpass.

 

Cold Case Radiators

Cold Case Radiators is a Max Performance company that produces high end aluminum performance radiators at a price point that won't break the bank. Polished and stamped tanks. 2 rows of 1" tubes. Lifetime Warranty.

GTOG8TA.com

GTOG8TA.com is a Max Performance company that manufacturers parts for the 04-06 GTO, 08-09 G8, and 93-02 Firebird/Trans Am platforms.

Copyright © 2017