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  #21  
Old 08-19-2019, 10:25 PM
salem1912 salem1912 is offline
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Gary why would he take off after a engine failure?

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  #22  
Old 08-20-2019, 11:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by salem1912 View Post
Gary why would he take off after a engine failure?
I have no idea. It was a dumbass move on their part. I'm no pilot and I know you never do that. You have it checked out before the aircraft flies again... and not until it's checked. Al was in the right seat but no one will ever know what happened. He'd just gotten his instructor's ticket back in May of this year. He knew better, but he was too easy going. Enough said so I'll leave it at that.

Knowing how the seats are attached and them going in nose first, there was no way they could have survived. More than likely they went thru the windshield. Check Delaware Online and you can see the plane upside down...... https://www.delawareonline.com/story...wn/2049964001/

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  #23  
Old 08-26-2019, 08:49 PM
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I found out yesterday, Sunday, that more than likely the Baron ran out of fuel. The pilot called Atlantic Aviation he was heading over to fuel but never showed up. An even dumber dumbass move. That's probably the reason the plane didn't blow up or catch fire when it crashed.

This is a Beechcraft Queen Air doing just that.... but with a load of fuel. It's not a stall as stated, but an engine that has quit running properly and not giving any power to keep it in the air because of the aircraft's and passenger's weight, plus the weight of the fuel onboard. You can hear an engine popping in the video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTQwkKameLg

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  #24  
Old 08-26-2019, 11:46 PM
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The above video shows a textbook aerodynamic stall/spin scenario.

That WAS indeed a "stall".

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Old 08-27-2019, 10:46 PM
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Sorry but it was no stall. Listen closely.

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  #26  
Old 08-28-2019, 12:21 AM
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Originally Posted by GT182 View Post
Sorry but it was no stall. Listen closely.
455HOGT37 said aerodynamic stall.

"An airplane stall is an aerodynamic condition in which an aircraft exceeds its given critical angle of attack and is no longer able to produce the required lift for normal flight. This type of stall should not be confused with an engine stall, familiar to anyone who has driven an automobile. When flying an airplane, a stall has nothing to do with the engine or another mechanical part. In piloting, a stall is only defined as the aerodynamic loss of lift that occurs when an airfoil (i.e.,*the wing of the airplane) exceeds its critical angle of attack."

https://www.thebalancecareers.com/wh...t-stall-282603

  #27  
Old 08-28-2019, 12:42 AM
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455HOGT37 455HOGT37 is offline
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Quote:
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Sorry but it was no stall. Listen closely.
A pilot can't hear a stall and neither can anyone on the ground. But a pilot can sure feel a stall and knowledge people on the ground can see a stall...

I've stalled just about every airplane I've flown and I've sure seen plenty other pilots do the same. That was a stall. The engine failure was secondary.

  #28  
Old 08-28-2019, 12:30 PM
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Sorry guys but I've talked to several guys, that I personally know, in Flight Safety that have seen this video. They all agree it's not a stall.... the Queen Air lost an engine. Turn up your volume and you can hear the left engine quit. There's a popping sound but it's faint, lasts only a second or so, and you have to pay close attention and really listen for it. The torque and thrust of the right engine is what made the plane twist to the left, and cause the loss of control. This happens so suddenly it's more than likely not controllable. A stall will not do that, unless you are in a turn that is too steep. This was not a steep turn, but caused by the loss of the engine. I've been in twin engine prop planes with pilots that have explained all this many many times. If it happens you will be very lucky if you can save the aircraft... and most don't as in this case. I practice this on my computer, and I have not saved one yet when it happens.... you need 6 hands that know what to do.

Do you not know what "Flight Safety" is? We have this here at our airport. They know their sh!t, unlike most that think they do.

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  #29  
Old 08-28-2019, 01:02 PM
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Yes, the engine is sick and was the initial problem. But the pilot got slow, exceeded the critical AoA and the wing stalled. It's a clear stall break, and the airplane is in an incipient spin as it disappears from view. Can't spin without a stall.

If you make it out to the Mojave desert I would be happy to demonstrate what a stall and spin feel like for real.

  #30  
Old 08-28-2019, 05:26 PM
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Mister Pontiac Mister Pontiac is offline
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Gary, we're very sorry that you lost your friend in this accident. But regardless of what others may be telling you, 455HOGT37 is correct. This was a stall/spin accident.

I've been flying twin engine aircraft for decades, and I've been flying multi-engine turboprops (like this Queen Air) and Jets for nearly as long. It's my day job. I train at Flight Safety every 6 months, and have for years, so I too am acutely aware of what happens in a stall/spin scenario. When an engine quits, the plane quickly begins to slow. The pilot must push the nose forward in order to maintain airspeed, which is counterintuitive (and frightening) when you're close to the ground. That is why an engine failure just after takeoff is the most dangerous scenario.

No matter if the engine quits, the plane will continue to fly as long as the wing doesn't stall. It may not climb well (or at all), but airspeed must be maintained. In the case of a multi-engine airplane, you must keep your airspeed above a speed called Vmc (Velocity, minimum control). If airspeed decays below this, the rudder is no longer effective enough to maintain directional control of the plane. At this point, the rudder cannot overcome the turning tendency from the asymmetric thrust (full power on the operative engine, and no power on the inoperative engine). When this happens, the plane turns into the inoperative engine which slows that wing even more. Since the rudder is at its limit, the problem only grows from here. The plane continues to turn, the wing continues to slow, and ultimately the wing stalls & the airplane spins.

It's a very sad thing indeed.

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