[Diego]

Doug, you were friends with Hillar, right?

[davepl1969-2+2]

Boy, it seems like a fellow can't throw a rock around here without it landing on some kind of L36 427 Pontiac! :-)

In all seriousness, what a great story on that Strato Chief, I cannot think of another original owner like that! After 15-20 years of nagging, I finally managed to grab a 1969 2+2 427 four-speed convertible, which GM VVS tells me is one of one (or two, maybe).

I pulled the body off yesterday, but here's a shot of some of the more interesting parts that you don't see down here in the US...

I'm by no means the original owner, but I tracked him down via the protecto plate and chatted with him a week or two ago - he wanted "a fast Corvette or a Convertible, and everyone else had Chevelles and Camaros, but you couldn't get the 427 in those"

I put a blog together about my hunt for the car, for the curious: https://1969pontiac.blogspot.com/2017/11/

[Diego]

Can you post the docs?

[davepl1969-2+2]

Originally Posted by Diego

Can you post the docs?

Sorry, I assume you meant the 1967. If you meant my car, I'll start a new thread, as I don't want to hijack this one!

[427strato]

Hi. The strato chief is actually SS Gold Metallic, which is a dark green. My 68 Beaumont SD is Verdoro green. I'll post pictures to show the difference in the colours.
The reason I bought this car is one of my horror stories, so to speak. I originally attended at the plymouth dealer in town and a salesman drew up an order for me for a 68 hemi roadrunner, dark green, tinted glass, 4 spd., 3:91 (?) gears etc, ie similiar in colours and style as the pontiac. I was to drop a cheque back for $200 by 5 o'clock that day and he would submit the form. Off I went to tell my girl friend that I was going to buy a new car. Her father sold Pontiacs so she flipped out, as did he. Their big arguement was that the roadrunner only had a 90 day warranty and a pontiac would have 5 years. What did I know back then, I was only 19 so they won and I ended up with the strato chief.
I've just finished a body off restoration and still have some minor bugs to work out. It has about 200 miles on it since the restoration. Hopefully I'll have some time this year to get it out.
To answer another question, yes, Hillar was a good friend of mine. I enjoyed his company very much. Doug.

[Diego]

Originally Posted by 427strato

To answer another question, yes, Hillar was a good friend of mine. I enjoyed his company very much. Doug.

I've known about your cars for about 20 years. Hillar may have even shown me the GM docs cuz he knew my interest was piqued by these cars.

[Ben M.]

That's so awesome. I've never been a huge fan of the Cheviacs (kidding ;-) ) mostly because they are very rare to non-existent down in the southwest where I was from growing up. I don't care who you are though, a 396 or 427 4 speed car is something special and I'd be hard pressed to turn one away. How your '68 427-4 speed car is configured is almost exactly how I'd order one if I had been around then to order one new. I'm still wanting a 428-4 speed '67-68 car for going fast. My hat is off to you for keeping it all these years and restoring it! I love it.

[gtospieg]

very cool...was waiting to hear/see more about this unique ride.

[SD455DJ]

427strato - Is SS Gold metallic the same as Midnight Green (M)? Love to see that car at the Ames Performance Nationals at Norwalk, OH and/or MCACN.

Dennis

[427strato]

Hi Dennis. I dropped by the Ames booth a number of times about 10 years ago at Carlisle and they were absolutely uninterested in my car, or any Canadian car, or providing any parts for them so I doubt they would be interested in seeing my car there. What I would love to see is a picture of the 68 Catalina 428, 4 spd. car, that is the subject of this thread, alongside my car. If I read the posts correctly it is not that far from me, ie in Michigan? I have fantasized about one of these over the years and it really excites me that one actually exists. I always figured that if we had 5 427 Strato Chiefs at a population of 30,000,000 at the time then you should have a few 428 Catalina 2 dr. post cars at a population of 300,000,000 at the same time. I can't wait to see this Catalina finished. I've looked at all of the pictures of it so far and in a picture of the outside you cannot see what the differences were in the two cars other than badging. Maybe someone is really great at photoshopping and could possibly put the two together. One of my best friends in 1968 ordered a 68 Biscayne 427, verdoro green, two weeks before I ordered my Ponitac. We parked beside each other every night at the A&W. Having the Catalina beside my car in that colour would almost be the same. I would love to hear more of the progress of this car as you will not likely ever find another one, much less have the opportunity to acqurire one. Doug.

[SD455DJ]

Doug (427strato) - That's sad to hear about the lack of interest in Canadian Pontiacs and, unfortunately, the whole industry is focused on sales volume. The great thing about the Ames event is the shear number of great cars it attracts and your Strato Chief would be a head-turner there. I don't go for the trophies or the vendors, but rather for the show (500 cars), race (500 cars), and the best Pontiac swap meet (including Canadian Pontiac) in the North America. Being in north central Ohio, it is fairly close to us and it sounds like you too. The event is worth the travel (we like to drive our cars - 600 miles round trip) and we aren't getting any younger and take advantage of the adventures while we can (and while we can drive our cars ourselves, haha).

According to the numbers Fred Simmonds compiled years ago and Diego has filtered through, we surmise maybe a dozen Catalina sedans were 428 HO 4-speed cars, with maybe half (5-6) factory ordered with 4.11 gears and the M-21. We heard of a few Ventura's and GP's similarly equipped., so may out of the 173 - 428 HO 4-speed cars produced, 25-30 were M-21/4.11 cars....pure speculation here.

I think a group picture of the two cars would be awesome. I know Barry Kluczyk at Hemmings & Musclecar Review, and Don Keefe at Poncho Perfection would love to do articles on both the cars, together or separately. My brother, Dan, who owns and is restoring the Cat, says that it won't likely be finished this year due to his work-load and is behind a couple of projects at Scott Tiemann's shop. I will certainly be posting progress reports and pics when it happens. Dan is currently assembling the 428 and hopefully will be broke-in and on the dyno in a month to see what the motor does. He is rebuilding it with a Mellings 068 cam, so it will be a true "pure-stock" HO. Dan degreed all the timing events and they were 'dead-on' to a real PMD 068 cam he has.

Dennis

[MikeNoun]

Thought you might enjoy this old ad.

Mike

[SD455DJ]

Thanks Mike! Where do you get all this great stuff??? That '68 Strato Chief sounds just like Doug's car...is it? Maybe a couple were made???

Dennis

[MikeNoun]

You're welcome, Dennis! A lot of this comes from diligent web searching and saving off of photos over the years. The hard part is tagging and storing everything properly so I can find it again!

Mike

[CDN2PLS2]

Do you know what paper that Ad was from?

[427strato]

Hi Guys. Thanks for posting that ad which I have seen before. I'm fairly sure a gentleman from London, Ontario originally posted it. The ad is almost for sure from the Toronto Star newspaper. For absolutely sure the ad was submitted by The New Old Car Trade Centre in late 1968. When I say I am the original owner, I am. I traded the car in on a 67 427-435 hrs Corvette in Oct. 68 at the above dealership. I changed cars back then like I changed shoes. I just didn't know any better. The Vette I traded a year later for a new 69 COPO Chevelle and a year later for a 68 427-400hrs Vette and then came a 66 427-425 hrs Vette, a 65 and so on and so on. Tends to be boring after awhile. In any event the ad in question was by that dealership and I ran into the car at Cayuga Dragway a couple of years later where a fellow was racing it; he turned 13.43 on 9.00 snow tires. Don't ask me why he was running snow tires but if I remember correctly he thought they were softer rubber; whatever, he may have been right. I traced the car down in 1984 and called the gentleman a couple of times a year to see if he was ready to sell it. In 1989 he agreed and I went to look at it. The car was being stored in a barn and the body was in decent shape. Someone had installed rear quarter skins and there were no holes however they were wavy. I found the only two NOS quarters I have ever seen in all of these years so I was in pretty good shape to restore the car. We pulled the body off, did the frame, had the body done, minor interior, engine rebuild, etc.. I have the original bill of sale, GM Vintage Services documentation, a letter from them that accompanied same stating there were only five L36 Strato Chiefs made and even a receipt for the rubber floor mats, which mats are in the car as I speak; I just moved them from car to car. I could take some pictures of the documentation and post them if anyone is interested. Doug.

[johnta1]

That's very cool, Doug!

I would be interested in seeing the info.

[Diego]

Originally Posted by SD455DJ

According to the numbers Fred Simmonds compiled years ago and Diego has filtered through, we surmise maybe a dozen Catalina sedans were 428 HO 4-speed cars, with maybe half (5-6) factory ordered with 4.11 gears and the M-21. We heard of a few Ventura's and GP's similarly equipped., so may out of the 173 - 428 HO 4-speed cars produced, 25-30 were M-21/4.11 cars....pure speculation here.

Just to clarify, I am not aware of Fred compiling HO numbers for 1968, and there's no clear numbers on 2-door sedans with the HO. I do know HO numbers are spotty, with some models having better info than others.

Here's how I'd fantasize, even though I prefer hard numbers to speculation:

113 428 and 20 HO Catalina ragtops were built.

113 428 2-door sedans were built, so can we theorize that around 20 HOs were built? No way to prove at the moment.

Of course, all this stuff comes from the GM Heritage Center.

[SD455DJ]

The 428 HO is getting real close to breaking it in on the stand and then to the engine dyno! It will be broken in with D-port RA manifolds and the regular oil filter housing to fit the 2nd gen F-body subframe that Dan rigged up for engine running. He also has a temporary set of intake manifold bolts for the break-in and dyno sessions and will be corrected to painted bolts later. It will be dyno'd with a variety of exhaust manifolds (long branch, A-body RA, and logs) to document the power differences.

Dennis

[Stuart]

This is getting exciting! Can't wait to see that car all together and running.