[ftwmlp]

Anyone have a subscription to this magazine, apparently it features a couple of GTO's and references some of the NOS parts collected over the years to use in the resto,including some details about the XP Ram Air Package

The back story here is I have close friend who ordered a 1966 GTO from a local Pontiac dealer in Fort Worth, TX. sometime in May 1966. He ordered it plain Jane, no air, no power brakes, etc. as he planned to be prepared in case a street race broke out as often happened back then. It was delivered in a couple of weeks and he proceeded to enjoy it as hoped. At the first tune up he was dumbfounded to see it had a dual point distributor. When contemplating headers he found it featured 2.5" exhaust manifolds. I did not know him at the time, but he assures me he was consistently faster at both street and strip than any other 1966/67 GTO he raced. We surmise that perhaps being a late model year order he may be gotten some parts that became available in 1967 models. Supposedly one of the magazine articles above references at least the dual point distributor.

Just curious.
Mike Pearson

[unruhjonny]

Not a subscriber, but I think that might be the issue I just picked up.
I'll check...

[Diego]

The car in the article is a '67.

[ftwmlp]

Originally Posted by Diego

The car in the article is a '67.

Yes sir, I understood the car in the article to be a '67. I am interested in what they say the "Ram Air" package included in '67, I have not been able to find any source that reported a dual point distributor as part of any engine package in '66 or '67.

[unruhjonny]

Originally Posted by ftwmlp

...At the first tune up he was dumbfounded to see it had a dual point distributor. When contemplating headers he found it featured 2.5" exhaust manifolds. I did not know him at the time, but he assures me he was consistently faster at both street and strip than any other 1966/67 GTO he raced. We surmise that perhaps being a late model year order he may be gotten some parts that became available in 1967 models. Supposedly one of the magazine articles above references at least the dual point distributor.

Just curious.
Mike Pearson

Here's what the article says about the dual points distributor (page 18, captioned under the two side by side engine pictures);

The day-two equipment Mancini added to the engine include vintage Cal Custom chrome-plated aluminum finned valve covers, a vintage (and NOS) Mallory Double-Life Dual points distributor, and Packard SS550 solid-core Burn-Proof spark plug wires with Rajah terminals.

The car is an original RAI GTO, that was essentially treated to what might be called a "day-two lite" restoration - it looks bone stock except for the wheels, but has the full Royal Bobcat treatment as well as some other hop up parts.

I suspect that if your friends car was ORDERED in May 1966, that if it wasn't something the dealer found in inventory somewhere, that it may have been a 1967 model year car - I say that because most stories I read of custom order cars have the recipient waiting several months to get their car.
I do not know if there were any differences between 1966 and 1967 standard exhaust manifolds, but if his were the standard units, and not the RA units, maybe late in the model year there was a change in the head pipes which made it seem as though his manifolds were 2.5" - because to the best of my knowledge, there were never 2.5" manifolds made.

The D-port RA manifolds always used a 2-1/4" pipe, and the collector and exhaust manifold (to pipe) gasket was shared between all RA (D or round port) manifolds;
That in and of itself might lend to discredit your friends (probably well intended) misinformation.

If you are unsure about your friend having standard versus RA manifolds - maybe his dealer found a '66 RA car in inventory that closely matched his order, and sold it to him for a stellar price... is that possible?

I do seem to recall that there was a performance, or an accessories brochure that showed a different distributor, but the transistorized was the only one I could find mentioned anywhere at this time.

1966 Pontiac Performance brochure
(page 66, bottom, second from the right)

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

My theory is
your friend was just feeling a little too happy the day he made up that BS story about his Base WT 389 - AFB carb 66 GTO.

it happens more and more as time goes on
no offense

[ftwmlp]

Originally Posted by unruhjonny

The D-port RA manifolds always used a 2-1/4" pipe, and the collector and exhaust manifold (to pipe) gasket was shared between all RA (D or round port) manifolds;
That in and of itself might lend to discredit your friends (probably well intended) misinformation.

If you are unsure about your friend having standard versus RA manifolds - maybe his dealer found a '66 RA car in inventory that closely matched his order, and sold it to him for a stellar price... is that possible?

I do seem to recall that there was a performance, or an accessories brochure that showed a different distributor, but the transistorized was the only one I could find mentioned anywhere at this time.

1966 Pontiac Performance brochure
(page 66, bottom, second from the right)

I had always suspected the manifold measurement difference was just a common confusion on how some people learned to "call out" the measurement of exhaust systems which still exists today. However, when he looked at my manifolds he did not hesitate to say they looked nothing like those on his engine. I showed him a pic of the RARE 67 manifolds and he felt strongly that was his recollection.

Baron,

Believe me, I did call BS many times, but this man grew up to be a A&P mechanic and Chief Pilot for 2 major oil and gas companies in this area, flying the CEO's in the best of private jets. While his memory, like mine, is always subject to challenge at this point in our lives it remains unshaken as to that car. Just wish I could find something to convince myself. As I read this in the quote unruhjonny posted:
"vintage (and NOS) Mallory Double-Life Dual points distributor"
I did not automatically think it was part of the Royal Bobcat "package" everyone talks about, but it might have been.

Thanks to all for the input
Mike Pearson

[unruhjonny]

Originally Posted by ftwmlp

... As I read this in the quote unruhjonny posted:
"vintage (and NOS) Mallory Double-Life Dual points distributor"
I did not automatically think it was part of the Royal Bobcat "package" everyone talks about, but it might have been.

it wasn't a part of the Bobcat package, that upgrade (like the wires and valve covers) were period upgrades that the owner did to his car - hense the "day-two" moniker that I mentioned.
The car was built as though it was something he would have done if he was able to have bought the car new, with period upgrades.

I called it "day-two lite" because often the cars built as "day-two" cars have ALOT more changes done to them...

[younggto]

Reminds me of being in the staging lanes of Dragway 42 last weekend; a guy came up and told me he bought a new 67 GTO with a 455, I said cool and let him have his story. Now that would be a rare car!!!

[Barrier Blue]

It was nice meeting and talking to you in the staging lanes at Norwalk last month. I'm the guy with the dark blue '67 Lemans with white shaker scoop.

[younggto]

Absolutely Barrier, hope you’re doing well!

[ftwmlp]

Having intellectually conceded my friend completely believes his version of history, the only plausible explanation is someone at the dealership took it upon themselves to embellish the performance of his engine before allowing him to take delivery, why remains a mystery. The color combo he ordered, burgundy body, black top, and parchment interior was not seen much in our area of Texas, but I guess the dealer could have found one and sold it to him instead of ordering from the factory.

[muscle_collector]

Originally Posted by unruhjonny

Here's what the article says about the dual points distributor (page 18, captioned under the two side by side engine pictures);


The car is an original RAI GTO, that was essentially treated to what might be called a "day-two lite" restoration - it looks bone stock except for the wheels, but has the full Royal Bobcat treatment as well as some other hop up parts.

I suspect that if your friends car was ORDERED in May 1966, that if it wasn't something the dealer found in inventory somewhere, that it may have been a 1967 model year car - I say that because most stories I read of custom order cars have the recipient waiting several months to get their car.
I do not know if there were any differences between 1966 and 1967 standard exhaust manifolds, but if his were the standard units, and not the RA units, maybe late in the model year there was a change in the head pipes which made it seem as though his manifolds were 2.5" - because to the best of my knowledge, there were never 2.5" manifolds made.

The D-port RA manifolds always used a 2-1/4" pipe, and the collector and exhaust manifold (to pipe) gasket was shared between all RA (D or round port) manifolds;
That in and of itself might lend to discredit your friends (probably well intended) misinformation.

If you are unsure about your friend having standard versus RA manifolds - maybe his dealer found a '66 RA car in inventory that closely matched his order, and sold it to him for a stellar price... is that possible?

I do seem to recall that there was a performance, or an accessories brochure that showed a different distributor, but the transistorized was the only one I could find mentioned anywhere at this time.

1966 Pontiac Performance brochure
(page 66, bottom, second from the right)

if its a 67 it wouldn't be a ra1

[Diego]

A 1967 RA and 1968 RA before April are both RAI, IMHO.

[unruhjonny]

Originally Posted by Diego

A 1967 RA and 1968 RA before April are both RAI, IMHO.

I may be wrong, but I thought the Ram Air option was released in late 1966;
But otherwise that was essentially what I was saying...
IF it was found in GM inventory late in the 1966 model year it may have been an early RAI car, as opposed to being ordered as a "no engine option" 1967 model year GTO.

[Diego]

There's the 1966 XS engine, which is the first "true" Ram Air engine.

But I generally refer to the 1967 400 Ram Air as "Ram Air I" because it was carried over into 1968 and needs something to distinguish it from the midyear RAII. Others' results may vary.