#21  
Old 02-20-2021, 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by J Druin View Post
Just thought I would post the results of a recent dyno session. It is a .040 400 with Icon flattops, Eagle rods and HR cam. The Heads and cam were bought from Pontiac Speed Shop. All pulls were made with a 770 Street Avenger
carb. The sheet posted was with a TII and a 1/2" Super Sucker spacer. We tried an RPM and it made as much HP and a little more torque but it took a 1" spacer and since I am putting this in a 79 TA that won't work very well if. Peak numbers were 434 HP and 458 TQ. I was told this was a conservative Stuska Dyno.
Nice Job! Did you set the cam up 4° advanced?

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  #22  
Old 02-20-2021, 05:52 PM
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Originally Posted by steve25 View Post
I must be honest by saying that I am not impressed!

Here’s a dyno test of a 364 cid SBC with Trickflow heads that I ported up to 260 cfm.
The motor had 10.25 compression and a Crower cam.

Two flat tappet hydro cams where tested .
The final cam as used in this test made 9 more ft lbs of torque and 17 more hp.
The cam specs where 220/226
Cam Lift .462” .470”
1.6 rockers where used and the cam was advanced from 112 to 109.
A 700 Holley was used on top a Victor jr manifold that I had blended the plenum on and gasket matched,
What does this have to do with a 400 CID Pontiac? Everyone knows it's easier to pull big numbers out of a SBC.

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Old 02-20-2021, 06:16 PM
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So you really think so seeing as his motor is 407.7 cid and the SBC from my dyno sheet is spotting him over 43 cid!
Your too easy to please!
Let’s also add to this that those out of the box speed master heads flow more cfm then where I ported the trickflow heads up too, so your comment isn’t grounded in reality!

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Last edited by steve25; 02-20-2021 at 06:27 PM.
  #24  
Old 02-20-2021, 06:33 PM
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Anyone remember the Edelbrock adds from when there heads first came out raise your hand?

Well I do, and on there rebuilt 400 they tested the heads on along with there version of the RA4 Cam the thing made only 425 hp, and I recall being unimpressed then also!

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1) un-mailed in gift coupon from a 1972 box of corn flakes.
Two pairs of brown leather flip flops, never seen more then 2 mph.

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Old 02-20-2021, 06:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NeighborsComplaint View Post
it's easier to pull big numbers out of a SBC.
I agree.
Not hard to make north of 500HP from a street-able 400 SBC.
It would be interesting to measure how much power the heavier rotating assembly of the Pontiac costs.

  #26  
Old 02-20-2021, 06:53 PM
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Was not trying to set the world on fire with this build, just thought I would give the Speedmasters a try. We did need some tuning on the carb, it was pig rich to start. Also, the RPM without the 1" spacer lost 15 hp. With the car having 3.73 and a 2004R the TII should work ok. But, I will try the RPM at the track at some point. The compression is right at 10.25 and the cam was installed stright up. I had this same 400 with ported #62's and the CC 276AH-10 several years ago and it ran a best 7.96 at 86.5 MPH in this same car. So, I will have a good comparison.

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Old 02-20-2021, 07:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J Druin View Post
Was not trying to set the world on fire with this build, just thought I would give the Speedmasters a try. We did need some tuning on the carb, it was pig rich to start. Also, the RPM without the 1" spacer lost 15 hp. With the car having 3.73 and a 2004R the TII should work ok. But, I will try the RPM at the track at some point. The compression is right at 10.25 and the cam was installed stright up. I had this same 400 with ported #62's and the CC 276AH-10 several years ago and it ran a best 7.96 at 86.5 MPH in this same car. So, I will have a good comparison.
If you ever get a chance, advance that cam 4° and it will make more power over a longer range. Either way - Great Job and Thanks for Sharing!

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Old 02-20-2021, 07:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J Druin View Post
Was not trying to set the world on fire with this build, just thought I would give the Speedmasters a try.
Bro, don't worry about the haters. That motor has a monster torque curve and is going to be a blast to drive, especially with that gear ratio and transmission....it's going to haul tail. And it will be fun to tune those extra ponies into it.

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Old 02-20-2021, 08:11 PM
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You are going to have a hard time fitting the T2 and a 1/2" spacer with a Shaker-and it will be down a little in the back unless you make a wedge spacer.

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  #30  
Old 02-20-2021, 09:28 PM
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"Also, the RPM without the 1" spacer lost 15 hp."

I always see some power loss using a square flange carb on a spread bore intake and visa-versa. This happens because a spread bore carb is lined up directly in the middle of the plenum areas on a spread bore intake.

On a single plane the spread bore carb is a bad choice w/o at least a 1" spacer. It not only has poor alignment to the plenum the throttle plates stick into it at different depths.

Even with that said I don't look all that closely at peak HP for street engines. I look at the torque curve and average power the rest just sorts itself out.......FWIW......


400 engines also seem to like them more than dual plane inta

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  #31  
Old 02-20-2021, 09:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Navy Horn 16 View Post
Wow, that's nowhere near enough timing.
It's got to be a combination of frustrating and encouraging to get a good dyno sheet but know that a whole bunch of power was left on the table with a simple adjustment.
No its not, unless he wants problems. Rod bearings, head gasket ect.

First pic is a KRE High Port with modern heart shaped fast burn chambers. They recommend 28-32 deg timing.
Next pic is the Speedmaster head. Almost identical.
The new Edelbrock CNC chambers are very similar.

The old Edelbrock bathtub/wedge chambers can use 36-38 deg timing. Some guys even run 42, but I wouldn't.
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  #32  
Old 02-20-2021, 09:43 PM
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I think the 400 performance looks good. Promising to run low 12s if it ever goes the 1/4 mile. What Octane ???

  #33  
Old 02-20-2021, 09:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J Druin View Post
Just thought I would post the results of a recent dyno session. It is a .040 400 with Icon flattops, Eagle rods and HR cam. The Heads and cam were bought from Pontiac Speed Shop. All pulls were made with a 770 Street Avenger
carb. The sheet posted was with a TII and a 1/2" Super Sucker spacer. We tried an RPM and it made as much HP and a little more torque but it took a 1" spacer and since I am putting this in a 79 TA that won't work very well if. Peak numbers were 434 HP and 458 TQ. I was told this was a conservative Stuska Dyno.
Sounds like it’s going to be a fun car.

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Old 02-20-2021, 09:53 PM
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On my RAIV headed 400 the T1, T2 and HO intake all dynoed within 1 HP but at the track the T1 using the same Q jet picked up 1 mph so was making HP but lost .2-3 seconds all on the bottom end even with a 4500 stall and 4.56s.

Be a good test to see how your does with a single plane vs a dual plane.

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Old 02-20-2021, 10:05 PM
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I not sure why this is getting knocked. Over 1 HP per cid is a good thing. The Edelbrock adds with their heads and their RAIV made 422 HP.
You might get 10-15 HP with more tuning, close to 450 HP with effort IMO. Nothing wrong with that.
We all have been waiting for some results with these heads. Thanks for posting.
Tough skin is required for dyno sheets as slings and arrows come your way. (I have done some slinging too)

Comparing Pontiac numbers with our tall decks, giant mains, anchors for cranks, rods porn stars would be proud of, puny ports, pinched ex runners to a sbc with years and years of high end efforts and a data base to build on is a tough deal.
Have a blast with it.

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Old 02-20-2021, 10:31 PM
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And an LS2 (364 CU in) will beat the pants off of the 364 SBC given the same treatment, so what's the point here? I've owned an LT1, and an LS2, no comparison between the 2.

If you're going to criticize his build, why not offer up what you think he should have done instead, not just put him down.

The unported Speedmaster heads are a copy of the Performer heads anyway, why are you surprised that they have nearly the same capabilities given they're copies.

Then you compare a bone stock set of Performer copies that were designed 30 years ago, with the only update being a different combustion chamber in the last 30 years. How many updates have SBC heads received in the last 30 years? By your post, the Trick Flow heads were also ported, and the "as cast" Speedmaster heads came up short, big surprise there...... If the OP had a set of ported tiger heads I'm betting his results would have been very different.

A 410 sprint car engine naturally aspirated will make 950 HP, a 360 sprint car engine makes over 700HP, kinda makes your SBC look puny, doesn't it. But it runs on methanol, has 15 to 1 compression, 8 stack Kinsler fuel injection with 8, 2 11/16" throttle bores, and about every SBC innovation there is incorporated in it. Apples and oranges here, the man posted his results, why attack him?

Tom S made a 301 stroker from a 3.75 crank in a 301 turbo block, made 475 HP without being anything radical, or a max effort. Right there with a 364 SBC.

Over the years I've beaten SBC, and BBC by the dozens, how'd that happen? Grown men claiming I'm cheating because their chevies can't possibly be beaten by a lowly Pontiac Stratostreak engine. I was protested almost every week I raced, never found a thing where I was cheating, because I wasn't.

No matter how fast you are, someone else can, and will be faster. It takes money, and time/work. People get discouraged when someone attacks their efforts, I see no reason to attack the OP. BTW I believe most people here know it's easier, and cheaper to get power from the chevy platform, no news flash. The Pontiac owners choose to do it differently than everyone else, that's not a bad thing.

If I were the OP, I'd never post any dyno results here, ever..............


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Old 02-20-2021, 11:50 PM
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Originally Posted by pastry_chef View Post
It would be interesting to measure how much power the heavier rotating assembly of the Pontiac costs.
Completely depends how the engine is pulled if it shows anything. The slower the rpm pull rate the less rotating weight effects things

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Old 02-21-2021, 12:22 AM
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Good job on your build. Dont pay any attention to some of the negative responses. Some people always have negative comments. Seems to me like they must be unhappy with their own stuff so they say bad things about everyone else's.

I say to you, Good Job!

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Old 02-21-2021, 07:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J Druin View Post
Just thought I would post the results of a recent dyno session. It is a .040 400 with Icon flattops, Eagle rods and HR cam. The Heads and cam were bought from Pontiac Speed Shop. All pulls were made with a 770 Street Avenger
carb. The sheet posted was with a TII and a 1/2" Super Sucker spacer. We tried an RPM and it made as much HP and a little more torque but it took a 1" spacer and since I am putting this in a 79 TA that won't work very well if. Peak numbers were 434 HP and 458 TQ. I was told this was a conservative Stuska Dyno.
Do you know if there is room
In the spring package for
More cam? I’m
Going to put together a similar motor and test it in a friends lemans seems like tuff to beat for the money. Measure anyone out these on a motor w the speed master hr spring package? If so what cam

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  #40  
Old 02-21-2021, 07:49 AM
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I am not putting him down, nor am I a hater by any means, and I am sure as Hell not jealous, so stop your second guessing as to my nature or my intentions please!

He certainly was kind enough to post his dyno results with these heads used and by doing such was asking for a opinion, which I gave, and I fact I gave the SBC build as a reference for my opinion and the info from the Edelbrock ad, so I gave 2 examples, and not just opinion!

If you do not want opinions then don’t do posts asking for such!


The simple fact is that his 400 build would be making more power if he was running the KRE or Edelbrock D port heads on his 400!

Anyone care to comment as to why?

All this just goes to show how the combos we build need to be crafted more carefully and that’s because I know our Pontiac motors can equal the power of this SBC build I posted info about.

Here’s a great old example from the 1991 in terms of a 400 build with ported iron D port heads that certainly where not flowing what those out of the box Speedmaster heads are.

Anyone recall this 475 hp build that Pete McCarhy did ?
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And he was not talking about 1/8 or 1/4 mile ETs!

1) 1940s 100% silver 4 cup tea server set.

Two dry rotted 14 x 10 Micky Thompson slicks.

1) un-mailed in gift coupon from a 1972 box of corn flakes.
Two pairs of brown leather flip flops, never seen more then 2 mph.

Education is what your left with once you forget things!

Last edited by steve25; 02-21-2021 at 08:19 AM.
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