Pontiac - Boost Turbo, supercharged, Nitrous, EFI & other Power Adders discussed here.

          
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  #21  
Old 05-13-2010, 10:50 AM
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I found and bought a 31 spline 2 piece posi unit for the '63 rear on another board. In case I stay with it. Took it apart to inspect all the spiders etc. Looks good as far as I can tell. Anyone familiar with these units? I know the spiders are the weak points and from what I read there are no replacements for them. Is there any point in adding clutches or better clutches etc? Does anyone know the torque specs for the bolts that hold the 2 pieces together?
I called Speedway Motors and ordered a complete front beam axle disc brake conversion kit for it. Mark L

  #22  
Old 05-13-2010, 11:18 AM
tom s tom s is offline
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Mark,the spiders are really not the weak link.The bolts that hold the unit together are.They stretch,allow the gears to go out of mesh and wipe them out.The spiders are avail.They are the same as dana 44.When the gears go out,they take out the side gears and they are not avail.Brad is close to having a repop one piece unit avail.Tom

  #23  
Old 05-13-2010, 03:10 PM
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Mark,
Brad has new blots and clutches if you decide to stay with that unit. I bought all my stuff from him and he's a great guy to deal with. You might also consider a 9 inch conversion using your housing. Dil B. did one on his blown race car after destroying his rear center section. Do a search, looks like a great upgrade.

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Old 05-13-2010, 06:10 PM
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Yes I've seen the conversion posting and am very interested. I'm sitting on a detroit locker right now and would love to have it adapted. Just not sure of all the costs to do that. Or try the posi first with new bolts, then try a spool. I've just never used a spool on the street and hate to go thru the trouble to put one in then hate the manners. So many have said they run them all the time, so maybe it is not a problem. I've also heard stories of the lockers popping in an out making them annoying. So who knows.
Tom thanks for sticking with me. I was under the impression that the spiders were also possible soft or??? but I can see where the bolt stretch would initiate be problem, and also that there was nothing to replace them with. Good to know about the Dana 44 spiders. . When I get to that point I will have to give Brad a call and see what he can do for me. Thanks guys for the info. Mark L

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Old 05-13-2010, 06:38 PM
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Mark,if you run huge tires with a spool the drag will feel more pronounced as it wont drag well.I had Toms Diff do a posi for me years ago with larger bolts and NEVER had a problem since.He HATED to do it because the case is damn near impossible to drill and even harder to tap.FWIW,Tom

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Old 05-13-2010, 09:37 PM
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Mark from what I've read the Ford 9" has the same depth from mounting face to the centerline of the axles. The Olds/Pontiac rear housing needs a flange built up to accomodate the ford pattern basically flush with current face. IMO for the work involved it may be easier than using a Ford housing if you plan to keep your factory suspension. If changing rear suspension then just using a ford housing would be easier.

As a side note turbo cars may not be as hard on the rear as NA or N2O. I plan to stay with my Pontiac/Olds 3.08 posi and upgrade the bolts.

  #27  
Old 05-14-2010, 10:06 AM
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I posted an article awile back converting the 9.3 rear to a 9" pig.

http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=598512

Mark is the whole front suspension and frame rails getting replaced with 2 x 4 tubing for the axle install?

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Last edited by Bill Eveland; 05-14-2010 at 10:20 AM.
  #28  
Old 05-14-2010, 11:16 AM
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That was a great article too. I read it with great interest. I may actually ask my chassis guy if he might like trying the mod for me.
Yes the frame is cut off just out from the frame and square 4X4 tubing will run to just ahead of the original end of the frame. I had him extend the old end point by 2 inches but the end of the new rails will be right at the same location as the old stock frame end. This will allow me to put the front bumper back on in case I get too much trouble from the fashion police. He is referencing everyting off fo the front frame end point. The new tubing will come back level from that front point and where it intersects with the back of the frame near the firewall is where he will cut and graft. That point initially seemed to be about where the steering rag joint sits. That point forward will be just square tubing. The rear spring hanger is right under the frame where it makes the 90 degree turn out to the outer frame rails. The width may mean a bit of a bracket extension to the side of the original frame as it is wider there than the spring widths. The front of the new extensions will have a smaller square tubing cross bar. I wanted the square tubing so at sometime in the future I can add a front sway bar if it is required. Gunna go look and see where he is si far. If he is anywhere started I'll get some shots. Mark L

  #29  
Old 05-14-2010, 08:10 PM
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What timing cover are you using? And what for front mount ? I'm using a 55-58 front bracket and mount on the 60 cover i'm using. If needed i'll use the Hurst front mount I have. I'm planning on using the 60 cover on my 66 389.

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  #30  
Old 05-14-2010, 10:52 PM
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I'm using an AllPontiac front engine plate. I have a R.A.R.E smooth front timing cover I could use but then I have to use an electric water pump. They are set up to use a chevy pump. I may use a late factory cover and mechanical pump for reliability. Just not sure yet. I still have to get a balancer as well. Mark L

  #31  
Old 05-14-2010, 10:53 PM
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He has not started on the '63 yet. Monday or Tuesday it is scheduled. Mark L

  #32  
Old 05-14-2010, 11:40 PM
BruceWilkie BruceWilkie is offline
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Mark use a 55-58 type front center mount not a frontplate. That way twist from the chassis can only be put TO the block at the bell and mid plate(strongest area of block) and NO chassis twisting force can be put THROUGH the block. Use your front plate for something else (like tieing your chassis to control chassis twist) but DONT attach to the block. The 55-58 front mount(bottom center of timing cover) can be fabbed with a trans mount cushion and scrap of mild steel and mounts to the unused(59-81) timing cover holes. Add reinforcement rods to mid plate mount to control fore/aft movement.

With stock block's weak valley, putting chassis twisting forces THROUGH the block is much unneeded stress which you want to avoid, especially at your anticipated power level. You cant twist the block with only a mid plate and soft flexible center mount up front. Its like trying to open a jar by only twisting on the lid with the jar on wet ice. Dont use the whole block to control chassis twist. The bell area is plenty strong and applying twist only to the bell wont twist the motor itself. Reinforce the frame in front of the motor to control chassis twist. Dont tie the front of the motor to either side of the frame. Pontiac had the right idea 55-58!

  #33  
Old 05-15-2010, 11:42 AM
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The 60 cover is unique because that was the first year of standard cooling (55-59 reverse cooling) and the last year for the steel cover. It's been bored to accept a regular seal, not the cork and spring deal. I would be hesitant to put any type of mounting to the lower portion of an aluminum cover unless it was reinforced. The spacing from the block to the 4 bolt water pump pulley mounting surface is the same as my 8 bolt cover and pump.

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  #34  
Old 05-15-2010, 12:13 PM
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Bill I wouldnt hesitate to use the center front mount on an aluminum cover AS LONG AS the block is supported at the bell and soft mounted at the cover. The bell becomes the main weight carrier and center mount and trans tail keep the weight reasonably "balanced".

Over the years I have jacked on the aluminum covers to remove motor mount bolts, install headers, etc. and never damaged them.

The factory never changed the timing cover bottom holes because they used a support fixture in the same location when building the motors.

If one wanted a little more "security" you could modify (trim lead edge off) the pan rail and make a mild steel support bracket that covers the entire lower face of the timing cover and overlaps the pan rail.

  #35  
Old 05-18-2010, 02:42 AM
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Update. The original front frame is history. Replaced with 2X4 tubing. The axle is all tacked in place. I'm expecting to bring it hime Wednesday. The disc brake conversion for the beam axle arrived today as well.
Paul Carter called and confirned that the block soniced out fine. Now we start the block work. The deck rods have to go in first. Then the jacket get filled. After that the cylindes get rough bored. I have to buy the splayed caps (I was holding out incase the block failed) and get them down there with the crank and the rods. So things are moving. Mark L

  #36  
Old 05-18-2010, 03:03 AM
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Sounding good...if your motor guy is able to stay on it you might have it all ready to put together by sometime in June...I suggest you start working on that chassis as soon as you get it! lol

  #37  
Old 05-18-2010, 07:27 AM
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Steel midplate, aluminum front plate sandwiched between block and timing cover...that's how I would do it after reading your front frame is just a pair of box rails with no crossover.

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  #38  
Old 05-18-2010, 11:53 AM
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Brian there is a crossover. It will be Just back from the front edge of the frame horns incase I want to add brackets/gasser tank, sway bar in the future. More of a crossbar frame stabilizer. The engine should be hanging out in the middle of space. That way when I add too much nitro and singe the rings a little I can do a pit dissassembly and assembly so I'm ready for the next round. Drop the pan with nothing in the way. (Yeah right). Mark L

  #39  
Old 05-19-2010, 04:27 PM
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Found a good pic of a '62 Chevy that is very much like the concept of how mine should look. About that stance and height. Except mine will not have the blower, but the down pipes from the turbos could hang down like the headers on the Chevy.


Mark L

  #40  
Old 05-19-2010, 04:43 PM
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This is a pic of a '62 Chevy gasser. This is very close to what I envisioned for my '63 only with twin turbos versus the big blower. I could mount the turbos high enough to pop out of the hood for that affect but the down pipes could definitely drop down the same as the headers on the chevy. If I stay with the metal front end I'll tie it all together and make a tilt front end. Did it on my '63 Cat back in '73 using the hood hinges as the tilt mechanism. Worked great.


Mark L

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