[2nd67GTO]

Hey all, been fighting with my power windows for weeks now. Biggest problem Is passenger side door. Using the original regulator and new motor. Window is very slow to go up and seems to free fall going down. Most times won’t make it up without help. Drivers door is the same but reliably goes 90% of the way up.
I’m wondering if I didn’t preload the regulator springs enough? I didn’t pin the quadrant gear When I removed the old motors, never occurred to me. I just unbolted the motors and stood back.

Anyway, do I need to put a full wind on the spring? There was pretty good tension just going the half turn or so needed to get the motor bolted to the regulator. It seems more tension would help the up movement and slow the decent. Would be difficult for sure to get all the way around with the arm. Need a big vice, some sort of cheater bar and a brave assistant to bolt the motor in place IF you could get that extra turn on the spring.

Anyone done this before?

[Peter Serio]

You need to be SUPER CAREFUL messing around with those springs.


They are meant to be "pre-wound" which helps to offset the weight of the glass. The electric motor, by itself does not have enough power to push one of those windows all the up with out an assist from the spring.

All GM power and manual window regulators are made like this. Older GM cars had thick (read heavy) side glass and the spring tension inside the regulators was tailored to the weight of the glass, 2 door vs 4 door. Side glass vs quarter glass.

You should have pinned the arm, removed the motor and put it back on with those 3 bolts that way the spring is in it's original "wound" position.

In the shop manual it tells you how to do that. In some cars it can be done inside the door in others the regulator has to be removed.

I cannot tell you what the wind is in # of turns except that it is wound. In some cars it is around 1/2 a turn in others it is 3/4 of a turn.

Basically it is a counter balance spring so you may need to experiment with it to get it put back right. BE VERY CAREFUL. The arm has enough force when un-tethered to nip off the tip of a finger!!!! The pinion gear of the motor holds the spring back until you get it mounted inside the door so that the spring is then under the weight of the glass. In the shop I have seen people get hurt messing around with those regulators!!!!!

[Scott Thelander]

I feel it may be amperage or poor grounds .... if the above post doesnt help

I have played with many sets of power window issues...

I just freshened a 68 set up and just pulled 2 69 sets ... and just installed a set in a 85 GMC

I have lots of ?? for you

ring me 2o6 465 9165

Scott

[2nd67GTO]

Originally Posted by Peter Serio

You need to be SUPER CAREFUL messing around with those springs.


They are meant to be "pre-wound" which helps to offset the weight of the glass. The electric motor, by itself does not have enough power to push one of those windows all the up with out an assist from the spring.

All GM power and manual window regulators are made like this. Older GM cars had thick (read heavy) side glass and the spring tension inside the regulators was tailored to the weight of the glass, 2 door vs 4 door. Side glass vs quarter glass.

You should have pinned the arm, removed the motor and put it back on with those 3 bolts that way the spring is in it's original "wound" position.

In the shop manual it tells you how to do that. In some cars it can be done inside the door in others the regulator has to be removed.

I cannot tell you what the wind is in # of turns except that it is wound. In some cars it is around 1/2 a turn in others it is 3/4 of a turn.

Basically it is a counter balance spring so you may need to experiment with it to get it put back right. BE VERY CAREFUL. The arm has enough force when un-tethered to nip off the tip of a finger!!!! The pinion gear of the motor holds the spring back until you get it mounted inside the door so that the spring is then under the weight of the glass. In the shop I have seen people get hurt messing around with those regulators!!!!!

I realize I SHOULD have pinned them, but I didn’t. Even read that part in the Fisher body manual, but too late.
I’ve had it apart a couple times but never tried to get any extra on the spring. Mainly due to the force required and the danger involved. I figured out early about the counter balance thing. That’s what makes me think if I could get more tension on the spring it would solve most of my issues.

[2nd67GTO]

Originally Posted by Scott Thelander

I feel it may be amperage or poor grounds .... if the above post doesnt help

I have played with many sets of power window issues...

I just freshened a 68 set up and just pulled 2 69 sets ... and just installed a set in a 85 GMC

I have lots of ?? for you

ring me 2o6 465 9165

Scott

I will check power and grounds before tearing the door down (again). Thanks for the idea.

Questions for me? Or Pete?

[RedDirtRoad]

Pete beat me to it!
When I was a kid my next door neighbor was a mechanic and was working on his own Car (‘69 Caddy)
He was working on the PW motor and the spring took off the tip of his finger
Be very careful!!!

[2nd67GTO]

[Greg Reid]

I've solved a lot of electric motor problems by disassembling and cleaning the armature with emery cloth or some other very fine sandpaper. You can lose a lot of torque when the armature gets too much carbon buildup.

[2nd67GTO]

Good news, bad news. Good news is all nine fingers still intact! Bad news, I busted the spring trying to get another turn on it.

Cannot find a source for a new spring. Ordered a manual regulator for that side and will try and pillage it for the spring. Not opposed to returning it if there is a source out there.

After thinking about it, was the spring already fatigued and not offering the assistance it should? After 50+ years, it stands to reason. The quarter windows are significantly lighter and work perfect further adding to my suspicions.

Power and ground checked out. 1/10th volt loss between battery and window switch. 0 ohms resistance between regulator and body. I did install a new relay in the factory location.

[2nd67GTO]

Strike two!

Went to a local body shop today and went through their scrap pile. Found a regulator from a 67-72 chebby pick-up. Springs looked similar. In the pic, the spring on top is the Pontiac.

Side note, my buddy at the shop showed me a very easy, very safe way to remove the spring from the regulator. With regulator in a vice, spring up, take large channel locks, simply grab the outside of the entire spring, and rotate it off the tang. No fingers to get pinched.

After installing the spring on my power regulator, one thing became obvious, the center hole of the spring from the P/U is larger, allowing the center tang to slide halfway out of the slot Forcing the slot to flex open. Stuffed a shim in for temporary fix and installed the regulator into the door (after cleaning commutator on the motor). Ran up and down nicely in the empty door shell. Add the window and it won’t lift it to the top. No channel sashes have been installed yet.

Steeeeeriike!!!

[Greg Reid]

Oops...I meant commutator!

[2nd67GTO]

[2nd67GTO]

To close this thread out, I bought a complete manual regulator and robbed the spring. It appears identical to oem and functions perfectly.

[Scott Thelander]

it looks like to much internal friction from the rust between the spiral coils for your spring to
work properly in the lifting effort,.,,,,