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ramair2 · 08-08-2007, 04:48 PM

Wow that didnt take long!

Figured some of my commens would open the floodgates for lots of other "wait a minute, the **** motor could run rings around ..." posts ;-)

I just wanted to answer the specific question posted and help set the record straight regarding the (sometime confusing) issue re: RA I II III IV lineage and differentiation...

The Boss · 08-08-2007, 05:15 PM

Real nice explanation RA2, factual & complete.

Now do we throw the issue of high nickle content blocks into the mix with the 2506 and should we start the 4:33 only discussion too?

I put up a thread a while ago that nobody answered regarding casting dates on "as-cast" 2506 blocks - I'm curious if any were cast after the C118 date - can anybody chime in here? I'm trying to determine if that was the cut-off date, and from then on they were all ground and stamped. I believe it's been posted before that nobody has an "as-cast" 2506 RAIV block.....I know mine isn't.

va400bird · 08-08-2007, 06:15 PM

One more comment about ra3/ra4. I believe the original ram air "4" prototype was so named because there were 4 paths for fresh air to get to the carb - the 2 open hood scoops and 2 flexible hoses mounted behind the grills (like the early w30 olds). At some point Pontiac decided it was too costly to build but still liked the name. So the 2 open scoops were kept along with the name. Then the HO was offered with open scoops and renamed the ram air "3" the fill the void in the ram air sequence - really just marketing hype. Sadly some people still believe that the ram air 3 is better/faster than the ram air 1 or worse, the ram air 2, just because of the name.

ramair2 · 08-08-2007, 06:16 PM

Thanks boss...and yes 433 talk would be a nice transition..i wish some 433 67-9 L67 RA Birds had been factory built but Mattison says definitively that none were made...(yet we dont know how many 68 ra I bird coupes were built ??) ;-)

Anyhow..i also have heard the 2506 were high nickel..has that been confirmed as fact by any source? would think direct block testing could put that to rest (quantitatively)

ramair2 · 08-08-2007, 06:17 PM

boss my RA II block is C118...with no "96"..sorry i cant help any further than that...

The Boss · 08-08-2007, 06:40 PM

I think you've already said that your heads were D228's, I'm going to step out on a limb and say that the F cast heads were the first SR heads and not for production - does anybody have an original motor with dates other than D228 or D238?

68RamII · 08-09-2007, 02:22 PM

Boss,

Here is a picture of the date code on my Ram Air II block. I believe it says D246. Also my cylinder heads are D228. I hope this helps.

John

The Boss · 08-13-2007, 05:31 PM

NEW INFO!

I met and talked at length with Jim Mino at Norwalk on Friday - he has a set of heads on one car that are D198 w/o the 96. He thought that his blocks were C118 as well.

One post on the other thread lists two different casting dates in June, not sure if they were SR's or were originally installed on a factory car.

John - if your casting number is an AS-CAST 2506 - then so far you've got the latest one.

68RamII · 08-13-2007, 09:18 PM

Boss,

Here is the pic of the block number. What is an "as cast" block?

The Boss · 08-14-2007, 05:59 PM

This would be - so far C118 is the latest date.

68RamII · 08-14-2007, 09:31 PM

Boss,

Why is your block cast and mine stamped???

Thanks,
John

The Boss · 08-15-2007, 07:05 AM

Do a quick search and there are several threads here regarding that - the short answer is that when they ran out of the "AS CAST" 9792506 blocks the took regular blocks, added the 4 bolt caps, and ground either the entire casting number or just the last 4 digits and stamped the number in. Most, if not all of the 69 RA IV blocks were done this same way.

There have been talks that the 9792506 was a special casting and that the iron had a higher nickle content - but that is a subject for another thread.

BLKBRD · 08-15-2007, 09:19 PM

Guys,

I'll chime on on the high Nickle content question. Several years ago I asked the same question on this forum. From the responses that I received at that time, the concensus was that the '68 2506 blocks were of a high Nickle content, and that by '69, "ALL" of the Pontiac blocks were of a high Nickle content. This may explain why there wasn't a seperate 2506 casting in '69. Please take this info with a grain of salt, as I have no way of confirming or denying its validity. I did not confirm whether or not "ALL" includes the 6-cyl and 350 c.i. blocks.

It's fairly common knowledge that by the end of '69, all of the GM divisions were casting thier high performance blocks with a high Nickle content. Since Pontiac was a forerunner in the area of technology in those days, I wouldn't find it hard to believe that they were ahead of the game in the their practices, and were using high Nickle content blocks well before the end of '69.

By the way, I've been told by several engine builders that you do not want to use chrome molly rings in a factory block unless it is a high nickle content casting.

KEN CROCIE · 08-16-2007, 11:59 PM

Poncho Mike: You are not saying that H-O had a bunch of ra4s , ground off the numbers, and sold them as ra2s are you. We did buy the last of the ra2s from pontiac and sold them thru our newsletter. they had no cast# 96. If I recall, the left ex. port had The letterR and the right, a letter A.

cushsix · 08-20-2007, 12:37 PM

I have a 1968 Ram Air Convertible. Flambeau Burgundy. 400ci 4bbl Rochester Quadrajet,chrome hood scoop inserts, no air conditioning, . The motor is non matching but verified correct 1968 rebuilt . New black interior. I think this is rare because it is a rebuilt ram air "YC" engine. Only a few YC engines were made in 1968 . It later resurfaced as a 455ci in 1970. I have verified all block casting #'s and it is indeed a 1968 engine.

The Boss · 08-20-2007, 12:46 PM

In 1968, the YC coded blocks were 290 HP, 400 CID found in the big cars and Grand Prix's and did not contain the 9792506 casting number, nor come with 4 bolt mains.

cushsix · 08-20-2007, 01:09 PM

Agree, but this 9790071 YC engine was rebuilt to include all ram air correct parts.
Exhaust manifold headers, Qjet carb, new hood with chrome air inserts, round port heads,
Dyno tested at 350 HP. The rarity is that his was done to a YC engine.
also a tubo hydromatic trans. TH-400.
I've never seen one like it. Everything but the engine is out of the showroom.

Tellyshavilli · 08-20-2007, 04:13 PM

theres nothing rare about that . You need to find the right block and put that yc back in a grocery getter where it belongs . Boss can help you with that .

cushsix · 08-20-2007, 04:29 PM

Interesting reply.
You're telling me that a 400/350HP engine is a grocery getter because it is stamped YC. Unless I could find the exact engine that came in this car from the showroom (impossible) its no good.
I replied to this thread because it was discussing rare 1968 GTO Convertible Ram air cars.
I would dare you to find a YC Ram Air 1968 GTO Convertible.
My guess is that only Barrett-Jackson would care about this.
I've already been offered 40k for it and I'm not interested in selling.
Thanks for your concern.

Half-Inch Stud · 08-20-2007, 04:37 PM

I though everybody knew ____-______ owns a 68 Ram Air II Firebird Convertible (Verdoro/Parchment).

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