[goatwgn]

It isn't a Pontiac but it is a '73 to '77 A body so I am curious if any of you have done this modification. I have a '74 Olds Cutlass Supreme I am considering using a VIR eliminator (Valve in receiver) kit on so the 134a refrigerant I am now running will work better at idle speeds. (Also considering it on a '76 Ventura I have). My questions are, where did you purchase your product? I am considering going with Old Air Products, as they are the ones I purchased the under dash unit for my '66 Tempest Custom wagon about 8 years ago. I am also curious how the installation went, how it looked when finished, and how it operated. Thanks for any input.

[Grand73Am]

I haven't done it yet on my 75 lemans, but Classic Auto Air has a VIR eliminator kit here, at the bottom of the page that looks good:

http://www.classicautoair.com/1975_P...r_Upgrade.html

[rexs73gto]

Unless you change the condenser you will never get the 143a to work as good as it should as the cond.'s are made different & to make it work the most efficient way the cond. will need to be changed. It will work OK but it won't get as cold as it should without changing it. Going from the R12 to the 134A it will only get about 80% as cool as it should without the change.

[77 Canamman]

I've tried the R-134a "conversion" on my LeMans a few years back, and it never impressed me, especially at idle. I completely rebuilt the entire system, and used R12, and now it blows ice cold at all times and temperatures.

[goatwgn]

Originally Posted by 77 Canamman

I've tried the R-134a "conversion" on my LeMans a few years back, and it never impressed me, especially at idle. I completely rebuilt the entire system, and used R12, and now it blows ice cold at all times and temperatures.

I have been thinking pretty hard about converting it back to R12. R134a is an inferior refrigerant. It used to blow frost out of the vents sometimes on max setting with the R12. In a few years, R134a will be going the way of R12 anyhow. I saw on You Tube some people recharging thier AC with cans of computer keyboard duster lol.

[David Brown]

I bought a cross flow or parallel condenser from Classic Auto Air for both my 70 Bonneville and my 72 Cutlass. My Bonne is not on the road yet, but the Cutlass blows 30 to 40 degree vent air all the time, even in traffic or at lights. I also had the POA (not the replacement or bypass) recalibrated for 134A. I use my 72 Cutlass nearly every day in south Florida. It was a MAJOR improvement when I got the condenser and POA! And I can buy 30 pound drums of 134A from Sam's and do it myself.

[77 Canamman]

There is tons of R12 around, if you know where to look. All you need to buy it is the 609 EPA license, which is easy to obtain. I will never switch to R134A again...

[David Brown]

What is a 609 EPA license and how and where do you get it?

[77 Canamman]

http://epatest.com/609/

[goatwgn]

Originally Posted by 77 Canamman

There is tons of R12 around, if you know where to look. All you need to buy it is the 609 EPA license, which is easy to obtain. I will never switch to R134A again...

I service AC systems on cars where I work (independent repair shop). I never should have switched to the R134a. I even still have all my R12 guages and equipment. I will likely be going back to R12. My A6 compressor (only the second one on the car in 500000 miles) has become noisy as of late, so I may put the R12 back in there after replacing the compressor.

[dos75GAGTO]

I'm sure I will be ridiculed here but VIR eliminator and R134 running (1975 GA with stock condenser) down the road in 80 degree 75% humidity today going to the Pypes show...Temp gauge hit 40 degrees in the air vents...Actually less than 40 degrees... I'm sure the negative Nancy's will flock on this but really happened! Might want to consider looking at what's out there regarding technology and moving out of the 70's?

[goatwgn]

Originally Posted by dos75GAGTO

I'm sure I will be ridiculed here but VIR eliminator and R134 running (1975 GA with stock condenser) down the road in 80 degree 75% humidity today going to the Pypes show...Temp gauge hit 40 degrees in the air vents...Actually less than 40 degrees... I'm sure the negative Nancy's will flock on this but really happened! Might want to consider looking at what's out there regarding technology and moving out of the 70's?

I like the input on both sides of the debate. I am not going to change my condenser. They don't make a drop in replacement, and I am not changing lines and brackets. My air actually is reasonably cold going down the road. IF the VIR eliminator helps with the idle AC temps on hot and humid days (above about 88 degrees F with over 60 percent humidity) I am still considering it. Was it a direct bolt in the place of the VIR? My Cutlass has a couple of underhood braces I that run very close to the VIR.

[dos75GAGTO]

It really was a plug and play with the exception of you had to wire in a Low Pressure sensor. I would highly recommend chatting with Classic Air regarding their VIR Eliminator...They do this stuff for a living and I'm kinda thinking they are ok as they are still in business?

FYI...The VIR Eliminator is basically the same dryer filter as the 77 and up vehicles. The difference is the orifice valve that they provide with the kit vs the factory orifice valve. I'm just telling you I'm not a fan of R134 over R12 but sometimes you have to move on and the R134 in this situation on my car works with stock stuff.

[77 Canamman]

Originally Posted by dos75GAGTO

I'm sure I will be ridiculed here but VIR eliminator and R134 running (1975 GA with stock condenser) down the road in 80 degree 75% humidity today going to the Pypes show...Temp gauge hit 40 degrees in the air vents...Actually less than 40 degrees... I'm sure the negative Nancy's will flock on this but really happened! Might want to consider looking at what's out there regarding technology and moving out of the 70's?

R134 is not the answer unless several modifications are made. Why would I change just for the sake of change? I tried it and it sucked, especially at slow speeds and idle. I have 20 lbs of R12, and will continue to utilize "old tech" in my "old car"...

[rexs73gto]

I wasn't saying that the 134a was better or worse, but if you have to go with the 134a because you can't get or afford R12, IF you want the 134a to work as good as the R12 which it will if you change the cond. with the few other items needed to make it work the way it should. If you don't have a problem other then it not blowing cold because of a small leak in your R12 system stay with the R12. There are millions of cars on the road with 134a & they work very good. If you think that R12 works better then the 134a then your system is not working correctly. As 134a & R12 will work the same if the system are using the products that they are designed to use. Both systems will get cold if they are working correctly. Neither one will be colder then the other if your measuring it at the same time & outside temp & outside humidity. You can't compare apples to oranges & expect the same results. Both will work & get you cold. I have changed from R12 to 134a without changing any thing other then the gas & it has worked just as well. On others I've had to work hard to get it to blow as cold. It really is sometimes the luck of the draw when you do the change.

[fiedlerh]

Speaking of old systems, does anyone repair the old R6 compressors? It was common for the the front seal to go bad, but IIRC, you needed special tools to replace it.

[77 Canamman]

The front seal is THE weak point with the A-6 compressors. You need special tools to replace it, but the compressors are pretty easy to rebuild if you have them.

[fiedlerh]

I meant A6 compressor. Too early.

[dos75GAGTO]

Hey Horst...Long time no chat...How are you?

Have you had any conversations with Classic Auto Air regarding rebuilding your compressor? I'm sure you could do it as well but these guys would be able to give you confidence that it is rebuildable and/or evaluate its condition before you do anything?

Regarding R12 vs 134...I'm not against R12 at all but for those of us that do not have the resources to obtain R12...134 is not as bad as all of the negative hype that seems to be still floating around for some reason?

[77 Canamman]

My message is regarding all of the negativity obtaining R12. My point to all of this is that it is really easy to get your EPA 609 cert. There are tons of deals on E-bay and Craigslist to buy the correct refrigerant. I have been buying it lately for $20 a pound, which is about $5 more than R134A.