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Old 03-07-2019, 02:41 PM
mgarblik mgarblik is offline
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Just had a customer bring me a Parts Place Re-pop Ram Air IV intake and crossover for installation. I gave it a careful look over and determined after laying an intake gasket on it it was not usable without substantial welding on several post roofs. For $500.00, it is reasonable to expect the ports to need some alignment and work near the flange. But this part is a real piece of aluminum garbage. Looks lousy on the exterior with some evidence of welding between two runners to save the casting from scrap. I can't imagine someone actually trying to use this as delivered. It would be one giant vacuum leak. I told him to send it back and get over his love affair with the idea. His stock iron one is a much nicer piece. Hopefully he will be refunded. I told him it would take $500-600 to weld it up and straighten it out enough to use and wouldn't look very nice visually.

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Old 03-07-2019, 03:06 PM
Chief of the 60's Chief of the 60's is offline
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People (not you) want cheap. They do not want to pay what it takes for quality used or NOS. To many of them, if a tire is black and round, they're all the same. Until they go to sell their Chiwanese Pontiac. Then they figure their Chiwanese GTO is worth the same as a Pontiac GTO where the guy bought all GM parts. It does not work that way.

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Old 03-07-2019, 04:46 PM
Chief of the 60's Chief of the 60's is offline
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People always want the cheapest until they get it. Then they complain and want the best.

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Old 03-07-2019, 06:18 PM
mgarblik mgarblik is offline
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I don't know what the price point should be for a decent re-pop of a Ram Air IV intake. Off the top, I know the customer I am dealing with would have jumped on a usable one for say $750.00. Aren't used ones about $1500.00? I am not in that market. Is that manifold a single source product? Any place he could get a decent one once he is done fighting the "parts place" for a refund?

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Old 03-07-2019, 06:25 PM
Chief of the 60's Chief of the 60's is offline
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Price for one that fits and works is priceless, wouldn't you say? I do not have one but if I needed one, I'd pay the piper. Certainly would be cheaper in the long run than this fiasco that you are caught in the middle of.

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Old 03-07-2019, 06:52 PM
mgarblik mgarblik is offline
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Well, I'm kinda with you Chief. But fortunately I am smart enough "not " to insert myself too deeply into this project. When he first came to me and said he "always wanted" this intake, all I could say is why? He then went into justifying how much better it would be concerning vapor lock with the separate crossover. I said, since it's a summer weekend car, why not just block the crossover in the heads and don't worry about it or let me put an electric choke on it. I also told him I had seen some pictures and read how bad they were. He just had to find out for himself, I guess. Fortunately, the car is not clogging up my small shop. I am very careful about that. I just wanted to again warn any other potential "suckers" out there in Pontiac land. " The Parts Place" seems to have a high percentage of low quality, non-usable parts for sale and customer service that gets very poor reports. Again, I can understand some clean-up being needed to use a part like this. The real crime is NOT leaving enough material on a lousy casting to make this happen. Having to weld up the top of the ports is a game changer and adds tremendous expense to the part.

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Old 03-07-2019, 07:41 PM
Chief of the 60's Chief of the 60's is offline
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I just love people like that. I have almost 45 years with Pontiacs and some clown who has owned one for 7 years or less will tell me how it is. When you try to help other people, they act like they know more than you. I cannot stomach people like that which is why, currently, I have no GTO or F'bird. Some of the cars I have now are 1 of 2000 down to a 1 of 1 Prototype. The only people that can tell me how it is are people like Joe Bortz, Don Keefe, etc. And when they speak, I'm all ears. With 45 years, I'm always learning something new. Newbies (less than 20 years) act like they know it all from the minute they buy a Pontiac. Sad what this hobby has come to.

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Old 06-15-2019, 10:55 PM
LStathas LStathas is offline
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The price of the manifold shouldn't be any more than any other aftermarket intake. The price should be dictated by the cost of manufacturing and tooling just like any other intake, or any product for that matter. But the price of tooling is a fixed number and not more than making the tooling for any other intake. The price of an NOS or original unit is not a good argument nor is the quality of the casting. It is greed driven and just another example of our screwed up profit driven mentality these days.

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Old 06-16-2019, 09:39 AM
dhutton dhutton is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LStathas View Post
The price of the manifold shouldn't be any more than any other aftermarket intake. The price should be dictated by the cost of manufacturing and tooling just like any other intake, or any product for that matter. But the price of tooling is a fixed number and not more than making the tooling for any other intake. The price of an NOS or original unit is not a good argument nor is the quality of the casting. It is greed driven and just another example of our screwed up profit driven mentality these days.
Volume manufactured is a huge driver of cost. The more you build of something the lower the cost. I can’t imagine they are making very many of these manifolds compared to a more widely used SBC manifold for example....

Don

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Old 06-16-2019, 10:16 AM
mgarblik mgarblik is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dhutton View Post
Volume manufactured is a huge driver of cost. The more you build of something the lower the cost. I can’t imagine they are making very many of these manifolds compared to a more widely used SBC manifold for example....

Don
Agree number of units sold drives the cost to some extent. My contention is simple. If YOU know the production will be very limited, and YOU know the quality of the casting will be suspect, and YOU know the pattern makers, cores, and core boxes will be second rate. Then for God's sake make the damn part with enough material in it to repair all the problems that WILL be in the final casting. Don't essentially produce a throw away part that stands no chance of even working, let alone working properly without hundreds of dollars of welding required to fill in all the mistakes. And on top of that charge top dollar for it and pretend it is an EXACT duplicate of a factory part. I can fix one of these manifolds and make it usable. But for a customer, it's going to cost them the manifold and $600.00-750.00 to weld the top of all the ports, fill and move the runners so they align, surface the mounting surface and weld up and re-drill all the mounting holes. Talking 2-3 days of work to fix.

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Old 06-16-2019, 11:49 AM
dhutton dhutton is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mgarblik View Post
Agree number of units sold drives the cost to some extent. My contention is simple. If YOU know the production will be very limited, and YOU know the quality of the casting will be suspect, and YOU know the pattern makers, cores, and core boxes will be second rate. Then for God's sake make the damn part with enough material in it to repair all the problems that WILL be in the final casting. Don't essentially produce a throw away part that stands no chance of even working, let alone working properly without hundreds of dollars of welding required to fill in all the mistakes. And on top of that charge top dollar for it and pretend it is an EXACT duplicate of a factory part. I can fix one of these manifolds and make it usable. But for a customer, it's going to cost them the manifold and $600.00-750.00 to weld the top of all the ports, fill and move the runners so they align, surface the mounting surface and weld up and re-drill all the mounting holes. Talking 2-3 days of work to fix.
My comment was not directed at you, hence my quote. I get what you are saying....

Volume is a huge factor in cost but shouldn’t drive quality. Although it is hard to make a business case for top quality tooling etc when the volume is low without further increasing part cost.

Don

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Old 06-18-2019, 10:23 PM
mgarblik mgarblik is offline
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My anger is not directed at you either dhutton. The whole episode was just frustrating. I did my best to try and talk the guy out of buying the manifold to begin with. But he "just had to have it". Then he is all upset when it is a complete pile of crap and not usable without spending twice what he paid for it to fix the new part. Nobody seems to be happy when the "Parts Place" is involved. It's a little unnerving that PY/Ames is selling some of their stuff in their catalog. I hope someone test fits and verifies every part before they catalog it.

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Old 06-19-2019, 01:09 PM
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77 Canamman 77 Canamman is offline
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I've bought good parts from them. I have also bought some really crappy parts from them. I've had a 66% success rate with their stuff, which is quite mediocre.

The most recent one is a front plate bracket for my 1973 Firebird Formula. The plate bracket was made from heavy steel, but the paint had a lot of dirt in it, and the bracket was poorly packaged, resulting in a bend that I had to straighten. It fit fine, but it could have been better.

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Old 08-21-2022, 09:08 PM
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So Ames, Classic and others all sell both RA4 and 455HO reproduction intakes. Are they all the same poor casting with all of these problems?

And is there a 1972 heat crossover available to be used with 72 and up heads and carbs/ choke releases.

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Old 08-21-2022, 09:16 PM
tom s tom s is offline
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As many know but not all,TPP is now owned by Classic Industries.Not sure if it will make a lot of diff.Tom

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