#21  
Old 08-18-2019, 04:07 PM
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If you have for example,one of the 288 Oshawa built 1970 GTO Judges, like I do, which was built in Canada and delivered new in Canada, to a Canadian Pontiac Buick dealership, there is NO PHS, only GM of Canada documentation.

If you have a 1970 Oshawa built GTO Judge delivered new to a Pontiac Buick dealership in US than you will have both PHS and GM of Canada documentation available to you.

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1969 GTO Judge Ram Air IV M21 4 speed 3:90
1970 GTO Judge Ram Air III M21 4 speed 3:90 Oshawa Built
1970 GSX Stage 1 M21 4 Speed 3.64 # 67 of 678 Original Paint
1970 GSX Stage 1 Auto 3.64 # 603 of 678 12.44@109.73 mph 2011 Buick GS Nats Pure Stock, 12.71@110.64 mph PSMCDR 2011
1970 GS Stage 1 Convertible Auto 3:64 12.71@109.15 mph PSMCDR 2009
1970 GS 455 M21 4 Speed 3.42
1987 GN Astro Roof
  #22  
Old 08-18-2019, 05:14 PM
Baron Von Zeppelin Baron Von Zeppelin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benlor View Post
... 4 speed ram air 3 non judge 69 gto convertible ... 31 options
Would definitely want the USA version PHS Invoice for this car .
It has a high potential of originally being a PMD Internal Use, PMD Executive or Zone Executive vehicle - amongst other unique possibilities also.

Only the PHS Invoice will give the needed clues.
If you do so , include a message asking that they comb archive to see if it is a multi-invoice vehicle / possible PMD or Zone Company Car .

It doesn't mean much to the retail value of the car,
the car itself determines that.
But it makes an interesting pedigree

  #23  
Old 08-30-2019, 03:41 PM
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There were 249 manual trans RA3 setups in ragtops in 69 GTO's. I don't recall the exact breakdown of Judges but say 2/3 of Judge ragtops were manuals (as was the case in judge hardtops) so you'd have high 100's of non Judge RA3 manual convertibles. Since about 10% of GTO ragtops were sold in Canada your GTO was probably one of 15-20 sold in Canada with a RA3 manual (almost all the manuals were 4 speeds rather than 3).

Since all 69 ragtops sold in Canada were built in Baltimore you should be able to get both US and Canadian documentation. The Canadian docs only include the engine number for Canadian built cars but still worth getting both.

In general Canadian buyers ordered less options than American buyers back then but inversely there seems to be a percentage of American built specialty cars (GTO's, Fbirds etc) that were heavily optioned in Canada. 69 was the first year dealers in Canada stocked American made Firebirds and GTO's. In earlier years you had to special order them and they were very expensive in Canada so they had an exotic quality there, hence why some were loaded up, rich guys showing off.

A 69 GTO in Canada looked like no other car in the road, no 68's were sold (except a very few special imports at high price) and no LeMans' or Tempests to dilute the unique body shape. It was like owning a Viper in the 90's, you looked like a movie star in a brand new 69 GTO in Canada.

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My Break Away Squad
1969 Fbird (Base, 350 & Sprint Cvt’s - 400HO & TA Hardtops)
1969 LeMans (2dr & 4dr Hardtop and a Cvt)
1969 LeMans Safari 2 seat Wagon
1969 GTO (2 Cvt, 2 Hardtops & Judge Hardtop)
1969 Catalina (3 Cvt’s & a 2dr hardtop)
1969 Ventura 2 Seat Wagon
1969 Executive 4dr Sedan
1969 Bonnie Cvt
1969 Bonnie 3 Seat Wagon (2 of them)
1969 Bonnie Brougham (4dr Hardtop & Cvt)
1969 Grand Prix SJ (2 of them)
1969 2+2 2dr Hardtop (Canadian model)
  #24  
Old 08-31-2019, 09:22 AM
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Out of the 108 1969 rags only 29 had the th400.

Breakdown by Engine in Convertible

WS code RA III Manual Trans = 74

WW code RA IV Manual Trans = 5

YZ code RA III Auto Trans = 29

XP code RA IV Auto Trans = 0

  #25  
Old 08-31-2019, 03:37 PM
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I have 1 of the 29
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Old 08-31-2019, 03:46 PM
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Same color scheme as my GTO ragtop

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My Break Away Squad
1969 Fbird (Base, 350 & Sprint Cvt’s - 400HO & TA Hardtops)
1969 LeMans (2dr & 4dr Hardtop and a Cvt)
1969 LeMans Safari 2 seat Wagon
1969 GTO (2 Cvt, 2 Hardtops & Judge Hardtop)
1969 Catalina (3 Cvt’s & a 2dr hardtop)
1969 Ventura 2 Seat Wagon
1969 Executive 4dr Sedan
1969 Bonnie Cvt
1969 Bonnie 3 Seat Wagon (2 of them)
1969 Bonnie Brougham (4dr Hardtop & Cvt)
1969 Grand Prix SJ (2 of them)
1969 2+2 2dr Hardtop (Canadian model)
  #27  
Old 08-31-2019, 05:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ram4king View Post
I have 1 of the 29
Love it, Expresso Brown is a great color on a 69 GTO.

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Rich Johns

Owner/Operator of Pure Stock Auto Restorations Inc.
www.purestockauto.com

1969 GTO Judge Ram Air IV M21 4 speed 3:90
1970 GTO Judge Ram Air III M21 4 speed 3:90 Oshawa Built
1970 GSX Stage 1 M21 4 Speed 3.64 # 67 of 678 Original Paint
1970 GSX Stage 1 Auto 3.64 # 603 of 678 12.44@109.73 mph 2011 Buick GS Nats Pure Stock, 12.71@110.64 mph PSMCDR 2011
1970 GS Stage 1 Convertible Auto 3:64 12.71@109.15 mph PSMCDR 2009
1970 GS 455 M21 4 Speed 3.42
1987 GN Astro Roof
  #28  
Old 08-31-2019, 06:46 PM
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like that color combo. I had one of the other 29 sold it a few years ago. carousel red black bench seat auto

  #29  
Old 09-01-2019, 09:43 AM
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Here is the one in my garage and is 1 of 29 units built. It sports no console option thus automatic on the tree. I am slowly getting her back together from her long nap sitting in a neighbors garage since 1976.
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  #30  
Old 09-01-2019, 10:02 AM
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Brewster is it a bucket column or a bench column

  #31  
Old 09-01-2019, 10:20 AM
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I can see a bucket seat headrest in the photo.

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My Break Away Squad
1969 Fbird (Base, 350 & Sprint Cvt’s - 400HO & TA Hardtops)
1969 LeMans (2dr & 4dr Hardtop and a Cvt)
1969 LeMans Safari 2 seat Wagon
1969 GTO (2 Cvt, 2 Hardtops & Judge Hardtop)
1969 Catalina (3 Cvt’s & a 2dr hardtop)
1969 Ventura 2 Seat Wagon
1969 Executive 4dr Sedan
1969 Bonnie Cvt
1969 Bonnie 3 Seat Wagon (2 of them)
1969 Bonnie Brougham (4dr Hardtop & Cvt)
1969 Grand Prix SJ (2 of them)
1969 2+2 2dr Hardtop (Canadian model)
  #32  
Old 09-01-2019, 10:30 AM
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It is a zone car that sports buckets,

  #33  
Old 09-05-2019, 03:04 AM
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It's my understanding that when a GOT built in USA then comes into Canada it had to be federally imported. Those microfiche manifests ,I believe , were bought off that agency responsible for maintaining them. Hence why they were and are allowed to sell the info, (RE-TYPED in their interpretation ) and on their letter head.

Then you also hope to find build sheets on gas tanks, seats etc.

Sure is nice when you buy a car that both!

In the USA I believe if the CANADIAN built car comes in then FEDERAL GOVT provided the Canadian microfiche to PHS.

So you obtain your PHS and again hope to find build sheets all over the car.

I think the same goes for USA BORN, USA SOLD, records of the microfische from factory sent to PHS.

Do I have it all sorta right?

I've heard many people say that a Canadian GM of Canada and Canadian car is more valuable then US due to the documentation history process? I fail to see how given what I've said and any seller can obtain regardless of origin of the car?

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  #34  
Old 09-05-2019, 08:07 AM
Baron Von Zeppelin Baron Von Zeppelin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyle_blake View Post
... I've heard many people say that a Canadian GM of Canada and Canadian car is more valuable then US due to the documentation history process? I fail to see how given what I've said and any seller can obtain regardless of origin of the car?
I wouldn't believe that about a Pontiac,
but any other brand - i would say Yes .

Such as special interest Chevrolets.
Canadian sold examples are the only ones that can be documented to verify option packages // content.

  #35  
Old 09-05-2019, 04:53 PM
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I had/and know where one of the RA III convertible stick cars is. Matador Red on red white top 4 spd car non hideaway car without a ton of other options. A friend has it now, nicely restored car.

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74 SD T/A Admiralty Blue Auto
others that reside in the barn too
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