#1  
Old 10-11-2018, 08:45 PM
avman avman is offline
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Arrow Has anyone used or seen this Rochester look alike throttle body injection system?

I have. The owner had nothing but great things to say about it. The problem I have with it is it is extremely expensive, even for me-who treats his 2 classic cars like the children (I don't have) and always want the best for them. The costs with everything would be around $8,000
I feel like this system would do 2 critical things for me: It would GUARANTEE the best possible performance would be achieved under ALL circumstances, on the street and at the quarter mile. We already have a significant investment in the car, and between the performance parts that were already in the .035 over 421 and what I added, which is significant and the best available for the build parameters when we had the engine rebuilt 2 years ago, including H-beam rods from Eagle, billet steel double roller timing sprockets and timing set, Comp Cams hydraulic roller cam and lifters, Viton valve stem seals with the appropriate machining of the seal seats, a new (used) 421/428 factory crankshaft that was in GREAT shape (thanks Bruce Fulper) and a Pertronix billet aluminum distributor and Ignitor III distributor system. It already had hand ported work on what I believe are really good factory cylinder heads (6777) and stamped steel Comp Cams roller tipped rocker arms, Comp Cams valve stem guides, locks, and retainers.
Getting the most out of the investment makes sense. We put another 6 grand into the Quick Performance rear axle assembly and UMI suspension parts and Wilwood 4 wheel disc brake system with labor included.
It would also assure, as much as possible, my wife's happiness and most trouble free operation while she is driving her car, and hopefully keep me from having to tell her I can't tell what she is saying when she is SCREAMING at me through her cell phone. ;-)
http://autotrendefi.com/efi-2g.html
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Last edited by avman; 10-11-2018 at 08:55 PM.
  #2  
Old 10-11-2018, 09:14 PM
SR-71 SR-71 is offline
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That looks awesome!

  #3  
Old 10-11-2018, 09:59 PM
avman avman is offline
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Originally Posted by SR-71 View Post
That looks awesome!
Oh it is, and I can tell you from seeing it in person, it really looks like 3 traditional Rochester 3 x 2bbl carbs from about 10 feet away, and damn good up close, especially with the individual air cleaner elements on them.
The owner said under all conditions the engine is flawless in operation, and they do live tuning once the installation is completed via internet and phone.
There is another outstanding system from a performance and appearance perspective. Superior in fact from a performance perspective because it uses 3 x 2 throttle bodies but has direct port injection, so the power availability is greater, but these units I started the thread about flow up to 350 CFM each, have different injectors available, and can easily support 600 horsepower, and the 421 we have should be somewhere in the 4XX horsepower range. So the performance advantage of the NEXT system I am going to picture and link to doesn't really matter, but once a top of the line control system is added, the following F&B system is around $5,000. The potential problem is that as nice as the F&B looks, it does not look like Rochesters, and I have to say, that is quite the cool look-but is just that worth another $3,000??
F&B does not show the Pontiac Tripower on their website, but they do on their YouTube video, so I captured some still shots.
The F&B system is in these pictures and here's the link:
http://www.fbthrottlebodies.com/products.htm
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  #4  
Old 10-12-2018, 02:58 AM
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Jack Gifford Jack Gifford is offline
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Are you sure the Rochester-look-alike system is TBI and not port injection hidden under the manifold?

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  #5  
Old 10-12-2018, 05:10 AM
avman avman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Gifford View Post
Are you sure the Rochester-look-alike system is TBI and not port injection hidden under the manifold?
I'm not sure from the pictures where or how the "injectors could be hidden" under the manifold
Every port injection + throttle body unit I have seen looked like the F&B unit in my 2nd system post. Per the manufacturer: Base price on the EFI-2G tri-power without intake manifold is $6395. I don't see someone installing injectors in their own manifold.

  #6  
Old 10-12-2018, 12:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Gifford View Post
Are you sure the Rochester-look-alike system is TBI and not port injection hidden under the manifold?
The PICO injectors are small enough that you could install 2 injectors inside the fuel bowl area of the castings. That would be 6 injector points (much like the stock booster points).

So basically it would be a throttle body injection set-up and you turned on the other 4 injectors when you activated the end castings.

As Jack asked, the only other way would be mounting the injectors under the manifold (which we did on 8 injectors of marty palbykins 16 injector special Pro Mod Pontiac Intake.)

Tom V.

I will stick with basic port injection and fuel rails.

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  #7  
Old 10-12-2018, 08:29 PM
avman avman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Vaught View Post
Tom V.
I will stick with basic port injection and fuel rails.
I have to say the Rochester look alikes, in person, are beautiful to see, just that $3,000 MORE is a heap-even for me-NOT that I am the guy with lots of money, FAR from it, but I like to buy nice stuff for our cars and have work done as well as I know how.

Tom, what about the F&B port injection system? Seems like the performance would be outstanding, tremendous flexibility, and while it doesn't look like 3 Rochesters it does have its own appeal.

  #8  
Old 10-13-2018, 02:50 AM
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I've wanted to do an "injected Tri-Power" for a long time (but I won't live that long).
I would turn the carbs into merely throttle valves (with TPS sensors hidden) and plumb port injectors into the bottom of the manifold. Who says fuel rails are needed? The injectors could be plumbed with four distribution blocks (to keep lines to ports short), with increased-size lines plumbing the four block feeds together- all underneath the manifold.. All the various sensors could easily be hidden.

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  #9  
Old 10-13-2018, 05:23 AM
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Years ago someone offered Rochester 2gs that had the insides machined out with injectors installed in the fuel bowl area, but I don't remember who it was. Also Moon at one time had Stromberg 97s that had injectors added to the bases.
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1999 WS6 Formula, 1 of 175
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1967 Firebird 400 bench seat, deluxe interior, auto
1965 GTO 462, KRE unported D-port heads, Bullet 234/244 cam, th400, tight 10" converter, 3.73 gears, 87 octane, 3440 lbs. empty,1.59 60ft, 7.159@95.33 (1/8), a real daily driver, been totaled, rolled 3 times, hit a tree airborne.
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Old 10-13-2018, 12:01 PM
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Just imagine tyhe Moon throttle castings with the extra wall around the injector locations and a top like a rochester 2-BBL and you have basically the same as the "Rochester Look alikes".

Tom V.

ps I agree Jack on the under manifold injector boss concept and kinsler is doing a lot of inboard/underside injector boss manifolds for people. The fuel rail deal, two rails or multiple rails is nothing to worry about.
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  #11  
Old 10-14-2018, 09:32 AM
avman avman is offline
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Thanks Tom!

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Old 01-27-2019, 01:29 PM
birdsandgoats birdsandgoats is offline
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Here is another system out there made for the Dodge and Chevy guys https://fitechefi.com/products/39610/

  #13  
Old 01-30-2019, 01:30 PM
avman avman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by birdsandgoats View Post
Here is another system out there made for the Dodge and Chevy guys https://fitechefi.com/products/39610/
I found out about that system around 10 days after I sent the 3 Holley 2bbl carbs for my 440 Roadrunner to Promax for some modifications. The rated "600 horsepower" is right around my goal for a future stroker motor that I want to build, but that same motor is going to have to put out 650 ft/lbs of torque for me to reach my goals. I am concerned about running a system at the top edge of its rating. Having said that, I have had problems with my carbs ever since I got them back from Promax, but I haven't spent any real time trying to work that out and I know that Promax modded Holley carbs on a 3x2 have had great results. I did that mainly to prep them for future mods to accommodate the stroker motor. In retrospect, and certainly if I can't work out the problems, I would have had better results with the FiTech 3x2 system.
I have posted about the systems (3x2) that F&B offer that use multiple throttle bodies and direct port injection. Also Holley has a patent application for a Sniper 3x2 system that I would like to see.
As far as the 421 in the 65 GTO goes, I am going to give Dave Boneske a shot at modding the 3x2 Rochesters, expecting good results. If that leaves me short, it will be either the $6k plus Rochester look alike 3x2 system or a system that is in development that I am waiting for more information about.

  #14  
Old 06-01-2019, 09:49 PM
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The NEWEST issue of Hot Rod Magazine has an article on the FITECH EFI TRI-POWER SYSTEM.

I saw one major issue with the system.

They recommend that all of the 6 throttle Blades of the system open at the same time!!
FROM IDLE TO WOT!!!

I know that you can control the EFI system to where you are adding less fuel from each injector at low speeds but with 6 air blades opening at the same time it would be like driving a dual set of Dominators on the street with all 8 barrels opening at the same time. It has to be an extremely pedal sensitive system to drive on the street.

JMO

Tom V.

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  #15  
Old 10-27-2019, 02:51 PM
flat-bill flat-bill is offline
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Default 3x2 FI system

I have a 4 barrel Fitech system on my 330 inch Desoto motor. In this system all 4 barrels open together. Mine is a port injection system that I have built up and it works fine. Initial off idle opening is not touchy. It does not have injectors in the throttle bores.

In the TBI systems they need to open all at once because all 4 barrels have injectors in them.

  #16  
Old 10-27-2019, 04:14 PM
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I haven't seen that Rochester lookalike system before, it is pretty cool. The same company has some Stromberg lookalike EFI systems that are marketed to the vintage hot rod crowd.

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Old 10-27-2019, 05:24 PM
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That is a lot of cabbage for a 3 x 2 look-a-like. $1,800 got me a port fuel setup with manifold, ECM and a computer controlled distributor.



The pic is dated, the new setup uses a tablet or smartphone to tune.

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Old 11-01-2019, 01:48 AM
avman avman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarebird View Post
That is a lot of cabbage for a 3 x 2 look-a-like. $1,800 got me a port fuel setup with manifold, ECM and a computer controlled distributor.



The pic is dated, the new setup uses a tablet or smartphone to tune.
I hear ya about the cost, but...
In my case, with my real V-code Roadrunner (440 6bbl) I absolutely will always have 3x2 of "something" feeding air and fuel. It's most likely to be the Promax modded Holley carbs, since I'm already invested, they are highly tunable, and capable of supporting a LOT of horsepower, and I have the option of transferring them over to a single plane intake manifold if the need arises.
In the case of my wife's GTO, her car is a documented 65 GTO 389 4bbl, but has been faithfully modded into a Royal Bobcat Tribute car, down to the October 1965 engine block date code on the 421. We both like the Tripower, and very soon now (finally) I'm sending the Rochesters to Dick Boneske so he can properly modify them to work with the current build specs of the 421.
That is the LAST round for the Rochesters, and I am sure Dick is the man, and I anticipate they will perform much better than now.
If that still leaves too much to be desired, I can try to sell her on the FiTech 3x2 system, but she may insist on the look alike, and that may mean spending big, UNLESS
someone else I've been talking about this with comes through with a great less expensive alternative.
We'll see...

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