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#1
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A question about date codes
My 69 350 HO block (not original to the car) has a date code of Oct 28 (J028). I have 3 sets of #48 heads and the best pair has a date code of early December (L038), but I do have a set of heads built in October. The car was delivered in late January of 69. Is the date code on the block close enough to be considered "numbers matching"? Would I be better off having the head date codes match the block, or should I use the early December heads?
For those out there with numbers matching cars, what's the time frame for you date codes WRT the build date? |
#2
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the date you have on your block is October 2nd 1968. i've seen in the industry an "acceptable" range as 3 months prior to build date of car. If it was me personally i would use the October heads to match the block. My numbers matching 400 68 bird was build 12D, December 4th week. the block has a casting date of L207(december 20 67), intake L137 and heads L017. Not sure if that answers your question or not but thats what i have seen.
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#3
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Is the number over the block code part of the car's VIN? |
#4
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No! That is an engine unit number.
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Bill 64 GTO, tube chassis w/606" IA tall deck, PG & a pro geared Fab 9". 2750 lbs. 8.2550@164.17-1/4, 5.2901@131.97-1/8, 1.1981-60-ft. 8/10/08 Last edited by WDCreech; 01-28-2015 at 10:33 PM. |
#5
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There should be a partial VIN down lower next to the timing cover, about where the radiator hose outlet on cover is.
It'll look something like 29U1xxxxx with the 'U' depends on the plant car is made at.
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John Wallace - johnta1 Pontiac Power RULES !!! www.wallaceracing.com Winner of Top Class at Pontiac Nationals, 2004 Cordova Winner of Quick 16 At Ames 2004 Pontiac Tripower Nats KRE's MR-1 - 1st 5 second Pontiac block ever! "Every man has a right to his own opinion, but no man has a right to be wrong in his facts." "People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid." – Socrates |
#6
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Thanks.
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#7
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Engine should be earlier than the car's build date. Most engine components like the heads should be earlier than the engine casting date. Too early is better than too late in my opinion.
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#8
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If you do not have the 'born with' block, you will never have a 'numbers matching' drivetrain. May be semantics to some, but IMHO correct. |
#9
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Date range depends upon where your car was built. The engines were ALL assembled in Pontiac MI and then shipped by train to the assembly plants. If your car was built in Freemont CA or Atlanta GA then the lead time would be longer.
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Some guys they just give up living And start dying little by little, piece by piece, Some guys come home from work and wash up, And go racin' in the street. Bruce Springsteen - Racing In The Street - 1978 |
#10
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I'm not sure where you came up with "numbers correct" to define this, but numbers matching means the part numbers and date codes are correct for the car. A "born with" drivetrain means the engine is the one the car came with. My "WN" block is a correct "numbers matching" block for this car. If it were coded for a Lemans, it may be exactly the same, but not numbers matching for the car.
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#11
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1971 Pontiac Trans Am Cameo White 1968 Firebird 400 coupe, Verdoro Green w/black vinyl top 1968 Firebird 400 convertible, Verdoro Green w/black top 1970 Buick Skylark Custom convertible(driver) Fire Red 1972 Buick GS 455 Stage 1 Royal Blue |
#12
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I really should go back to bed and not post.
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1971 Pontiac Trans Am Cameo White 1968 Firebird 400 coupe, Verdoro Green w/black vinyl top 1968 Firebird 400 convertible, Verdoro Green w/black top 1970 Buick Skylark Custom convertible(driver) Fire Red 1972 Buick GS 455 Stage 1 Royal Blue |
#13
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Go get some sleep!
__________________
Some guys they just give up living And start dying little by little, piece by piece, Some guys come home from work and wash up, And go racin' in the street. Bruce Springsteen - Racing In The Street - 1978 |
#14
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1969 was a long ass time ago. Not some, but most of these cars lost their engine at some point. I still have the "born with" transmission for my 69 350HO automatic convertible, but the engine in it now is a 68 Catalina 400... it's not numbers matching. If the inverse were true, and I had the correct engine, but a wrongly coded transmission (turbo 400), I could say it was mostly numbers matching, but that requires opinion to decipher. The tall and short of it is this... if you buy a car with a close drivetrain, it's worth more money. If it has the "born with" drivetrain, it's worth even more money. If it's a hot rod with a Chevy 350 but looks mostly stock, it's worth less; that's the bottom line. To imply the block has to be original to the car to make the claim it's "numbers matching" is probably the opinion of someone fortunate to have the "born with" drivetrain that includes to correct VIN. This isn't semantics IMO... parts are parts and they have numbers. |
#15
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I would note that your definition benefits you which makes it suspect. I'm could be 100% wrong but I'm not aware of any large body (ISCA for example) that has waded into this debate. You may define it how you want but again, creating or agreeing to a definition that benefits your "case" and potentially financially is suspect.
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PS An article from a couple years back where the author laments the degrading of the meaning of numbers matching... http://www.newsday.com/classifieds/c...sals-1.6154213
__________________
1971 Pontiac Trans Am Cameo White 1968 Firebird 400 coupe, Verdoro Green w/black vinyl top 1968 Firebird 400 convertible, Verdoro Green w/black top 1970 Buick Skylark Custom convertible(driver) Fire Red 1972 Buick GS 455 Stage 1 Royal Blue |
#16
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Yes, I agree with your point 100%, I'm most curious about the Antwerp date codes. Since they could have handled the assemblage of the parts prior to shipping in several way(collect all parts at say the Lordstown plant, put it into a container there then ship to outbound port, etc.) Or did they use Chevy engines like those that were assembled in Canada? Did they use Chevy engines for those assembled in Canada?
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1971 Pontiac Trans Am Cameo White 1968 Firebird 400 coupe, Verdoro Green w/black vinyl top 1968 Firebird 400 convertible, Verdoro Green w/black top 1970 Buick Skylark Custom convertible(driver) Fire Red 1972 Buick GS 455 Stage 1 Royal Blue |
#17
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__________________
Some guys they just give up living And start dying little by little, piece by piece, Some guys come home from work and wash up, And go racin' in the street. Bruce Springsteen - Racing In The Street - 1978 |
#18
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As far as date ranges, it sound like you are fine. I think the heads should be dated pretty close to the block. The build plant matters but so does the rarity of the car. My 400HOs VIN number matching motor is 6 months earlier than the car's build.
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1968 Firebird 400HO convertible 1971 Trans Am 4-speed, white/blue |
#19
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Or the 'build date' on the tag? I believe the engines were Pontiac in Belgium cars. All the parts and pieces were put in a big box and then shipped to New York port then shipped to Belgium. They had a plant that assembled them there. Then probably shipped to a dealer there for sale?
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John Wallace - johnta1 Pontiac Power RULES !!! www.wallaceracing.com Winner of Top Class at Pontiac Nationals, 2004 Cordova Winner of Quick 16 At Ames 2004 Pontiac Tripower Nats KRE's MR-1 - 1st 5 second Pontiac block ever! "Every man has a right to his own opinion, but no man has a right to be wrong in his facts." "People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid." – Socrates |
#20
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'63 LeMans Convertible '63 Grand Prix '65 GTO - original, unrestored, Dad was original owner, 5000 original mile Royal Pontiac factory racer '74 Chevelle - original owner, 9.85 @ 136 mph besthttp://www.superchevy.com/features/s...hevy-chevelle/ My Pontiac Story: http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=560524 "Intro from an old Assembly Plant Guy":http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=342926 |
Closed Thread |
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