[Hotrodjohn71]

Want a second oPINION before I proceed.

Pontiac 326 (stock motor & auto trans) with new Powermaster (original style, not mini) starter.

Most of the time it will crank first time.

Problem is occasionally, i go to crank and i hear the solenoid click. But theres no crank. I immediately try again and on the 3rd time it will fire right up- no low voltage whatsoever.

Im thinking that for some reason, the the thrust of the pinion is falling short from time to time, or is just on the ragged edge of making that starter cranking connection.

I know I have good power to the starter, '0' gauge welding cable from battery and ground straight to the block..

I know the startet isnt overheating. I wrapped my exhaust down-pipe with heat wrap, and I have a starter heat shield.

Im thinking about loosening the starter bolts and prting the starter away from the flexplate and retightening to give maximum thrust out of the bendix.

Thoughts?

[steve25]

On the all the occasion’s when the motor does not crank is it up to normal running temp, or will the issue take place with it cold also?

[Hotrodjohn71]

I dont remember it doing it when its cold, or been sitting for a day or more.

It seems to happen after the car has been running and after stopping to go into a store or such.

[steve25]

Well hearing a light click when you turn the key to start it is the sound of the solenoid closing , but maybe not good enough to flow the current needed to spin the armature .

If you are hearing a very metallic click then that my be the sound of the drive gear hitting the flywheel and jamming up due to no clearance when hot.

Rule of Thumb is that if you can fit the wire diameter of a big size paper clip ( .030” ) in between the flywheel and the drive gear when it’s kicked out then that’s pretty much ideal.

[Hotrodjohn71]

When i installed the starter, i used the paper clip, actually a 1/8" allen wrench to shim the starter so the allen would go between the gears, but not be able to turn .

This setting was apparently too tight of a setting for this patricular setup as it had accute noise from the pinion being too close to the ring gear.

I added a .015 shim and it got a bit better, and added another and it was pretty good accept for the intermittent issue it has now.

I am wondering if i should continue adding shims in spite of going far past that 1/8" allen key setting.

[Greg Reid]

I know you said you have good power to the starter but check what voltage you have on the solenoid from the ignition switch. I had an intermittent starter with similar symptoms and after changing starters and solenoids I finally got down there and visually checked the starter action. The pinion wasn't fully engaging.
I checked the ignition switch voltage at the 'S' terminal solenoid when the ignition switch was turned. It was 4 volts. The purple solenoid wire from the switch had been baked into a resistance wire. Too weak to fully engage the starter. Changed the wire and no more problems since.

[Schurkey]

Originally Posted by Greg Reid

check what voltage you have on the solenoid from the ignition switch...
...I checked the ignition switch voltage at the 'S' terminal solenoid when the ignition switch was turned. It was 4 volts. The purple solenoid wire from the switch had been baked into a resistance wire. Too weak to fully engage the starter. Changed the wire and no more problems since.

Common as dirt.

The main reason folks put a "Ford Solenoid" on the fender, is because they don't have sufficient voltage at the starter solenoid end of the "purple wire".

This (photo attached) is what I cut out of my '97 K2500. Even the "good" end of this wire is too corroded to solder-to.
The wire was corroded back behind the engine, where I had no access to solder. I ended up splicing new wire into the harness above the engine, dropping ~3 feet of new wire down to the solenoid.

[Greg Reid]

I spiced mine in about 4" from the engine side firewall and took the opportunity to make it plug-able. Now it can double as an under hood starter for adjusting valves. I just unplug it and connect a pushbutton jumper to the solenoid wire and clip the other end to the battery.

[Lemans64]

Sounds like either low voltage to the solenoid or solenoid issue. I put a relay on my wire going to the s terminal on starter so power comes from battery thru rely to s terminal.
Instead go gong thru fuse box- ignition switch - and down to starter, original wire controls the relay .

[Hotrodjohn71]

Ok, thanks a million. Im going to pick up (no pun intended) a 12v relay for that S terminal (purple wire).

[Hotrodjohn71]

Thanks for the wise advice. Got a 4-pin relay.

Installed it on the purple wire mounted behind the brake booster where it cant even be seen.

The knowledge about the voltage drop through that line is eyeopening.

In our car it has to go from the battery to the firewall connector to the fuse block to the ignition switch, then to the neutral safety switch then to a hidden anti-theft single pole/single throw switch, back to the firewall connector then to the solenoid.

Now i have straight path from batt + to the solenoid.

Thanks