[67Fbird]

1981 TA with a mild 455 D-port and M-21. Currently using some ANCIENT 35 yr old Hustlers 1 3/4 tubes. They are BEAT...dead...no more restoration can be done on these...they are so thin you can SEE the exhaust pulses moving thru them.

I would prefer to go stainless and it appears Dougs are the only one out there.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/d...bird/year/1973

I have no issue with brand but 1 very BIG issue is HOW LOW DO THEY HANG? and #2 can you get a full size oil filter on-off. I am using a lakewood scattershield which currently prevents me from using the LARGE 3 5/8" dia filter. I could also go back with another set of Heddman's as I would ASSUME they will land in the same place these are and FIT like these do. Only thing is they a ceramic?
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/h...bird/year/1973

[JLMounce]

I use the Dougs headers on my first gen. This may not apply directly since you have a second gen.

Clearance is very good. In fact the transmission pan/mount is lower than the collectors on my Dougs headers.

Clearance for oil filters isn't great. You can get them in there, but you have to remove the entire filter housing to do so. Or you can run a thinner/shorter filter. Other option is of course to run a remote filter setup.

[MatthewKlein]

Originally Posted by 67Fbird

they are so thin you can SEE the exhaust pulses moving thru them.

If a video of that is available it sounds neat

[b-man]

Mild D-port 455?

Ditch the headers old or new and go for the Ram Air/HO manifolds and get the ground clearance that every second-gen Firebird badly needs. I seriously doubt you’ll notice any real difference in performance.

[67Fbird]

Was/am seriously pondering those as well; however, I do intend to stack on to this motor after my boys learn to drive a clutch with a Butler top end kit. Heads, cam...stuff. The #62 ported heads currently might go 450 hp but with real heads and cam I expect about 600 (and my th2004r ). Thats all future stuff.

[b-man]

A set of headers for a 600 horsepower engine will need bigger tubes than 1-3/4” so ground clearance will become a secondary concern at that point.

Compromising clearance and prioritizing horsepower is how racers have to think, so possibly it might become a matter of just driving more carefully over dips in the road by slowing down and avoiding parking lot speed bumps at all costs.

Run the HO manifolds in the meantime then peddle them on the used parts market later on when it’s time for a substantial horsepower increase and the additional cost that requires.

[67Fbird]

This just in JET-HOT coats inside AND outside for about <$500. I have a few buddies who have dealt with them and after talking to them I THINK my better option is to REPLACE the current headers with NEW-SAME then ding-bend-beat them ( add o2 bung) as needed (none fit perfect) and have them coated. all still around $1k

[67Fbird]

Originally Posted by b-man

A set of headers for a 600 horsepower engine will need bigger tubes than 1-3/4” so ground clearance will become a secondary concern at that point.

Compromising clearance and prioritizing horsepower is how racers have to think, so possibly it might become a matter of just driving more carefully over dips in the road by slowing down and avoiding parking lot speed bumps at all costs.

Run the HO manifolds in the meantime then peddle them on the used parts market later on when it’s time for a substantial horsepower increase and the additional cost that requires.

didn't ponder that thought...thankyou for the insight!!! yeah headers and speed bumps....look like a drunk with no steering....lol

[ta man]

I have Doug's..they dont hang low..but on D port heads they need some massaging to go in. I have never scraped a header in almost 40 years of running headers on second gens.

[phil400]

If you're gonna have them coated, a good header for the money, is the hedman 28150, my buddy is running those on his 78 4speed, I helped install them, they tuck up nice under the body, use ball-socket collector, work with the original reverse lock out linkage, but do require a smaller diameter filter, and better to use a mini starter with them

[67Fbird]

Originally Posted by phil400

If you're gonna have them coated, a good header for the money, is the hedman 28150, my buddy is running those on his 78 4speed, I helped install them, they tuck up nice under the body, use ball-socket collector, work with the original reverse lock out linkage, but do require a smaller diameter filter, and better to use a mini starter with them

Those are the exact ones I was looking at. Using a mini starter, and they (assuming what i have is the same part number..just old) have worked with every configuration I have ran. MY collector length appears to be shorter than the "NEW" ones but the tube placements appear identical.

I do intend to MEASURE the drop distance of whatever i use for future reference

[jwcfbd]

My car is a 67 Firebird but I've had good luck with Doug's and Hooker super comps.

[67Fbird]

Review of Dougs SS headers.:
Got most evverything buttoned up on the TA so now I have some info to add. MY set-up is a '73 455 with #62 heads with BUTLER SOLID MOTOR MOUNTS lakewood scattershield. Left header tube contacts the lower control arm frame mount. Slight cutting to remoe EXCESS around the bushing solved the issue and gives 1 "finger" clearance (ie 1/2") The headers tuck up nice to the floor with crossmember clearance also good. The OIL FILTER issue is NOT due to the headers but the combination of headers and SCATTERSHIELD requiring a SMALL wix 50142 oil filter. (SAME as previous headers i've NEVER had an issue running the small filters). Getting the rear bolt started on #5 or #6 hole can be challenging but beer helps!

[i82much]

if a tiny pf48 lasts for 6500 miles on my 6.0 vortec, how many of us really need a big filter for 3k mile changes on a classic pontiac?

[steve25]

The problem that can take place is that whenever the pressure differential is more than 25 lbs the stock bypass spring in the filter mount allows unfiltered oil into the motor.
Above 4400 rpm the oil volume needs of our Pontiacs level off even with the 4.210” size mains , so then the bypass will open up.

Pontiacs engine approval to release a motor design for production was to run a motor for hours at guess what, 4000 rpm.

[78w72]

Originally Posted by phil400

If you're gonna have them coated, a good header for the money, is the hedman 28150, my buddy is running those on his 78 4speed, I helped install them, they tuck up nice under the body, use ball-socket collector, work with the original reverse lock out linkage, but do require a smaller diameter filter, and better to use a mini starter with them

I have the 28150 hedmans in a 78 4 speed TA also, they fit great with no mods or denting required... I also use a full size starter & standard size oil filter with no issues, its tight getting it in/out but not bad at all, just need to tilt it a bit going in/out so cant fully prefill if you do that.

Also no ground clearance issues with a ~1" lower than stock height, the collector & flange tuck up nicely with the bottom of the sub frame, car would have to be very low or a huge speed bump to hit the headers.

If this is mostly a street car, 1 3/4 headers are ok at 500-550hp, 600hp might be a stretch with just a top end kit & the 200r trans will definitely need beefed up to handle that kind of power.

[Steve C.]

One can always consider a remote mounted filter if necessary.

If you do, consider how much oil is contained up inside a running engine and the lines to and from a remote mounted filter.



.

[srmmmm]

Originally Posted by 78w72

I have the 28150 hedmans in a 78 4 speed TA also, they fit great with no mods or denting required... I also use a full size starter & standard size oil filter with no issues, its tight getting it in/out but not bad at all, just need to tilt it a bit going in/out so cant fully prefill if you do that.

Also no ground clearance issues with a ~1" lower than stock height, the collector & flange tuck up nicely with the bottom of the sub frame, car would have to be very low or a huge speed bump to hit the headers.

If this is mostly a street car, 1 3/4 headers are ok at 500-550hp, 600hp might be a stretch with just a top end kit & the 200r trans will definitely need beefed up to handle that kind of power.

I also have the Hedman 28153 on 6X-4 heads. No clearance issues with frame or chassis and standard size oil filter is accessible. Collector flanges sit above the level of my frame connectors so the entire Pypes 2-1/2" X system is hidden. I did use a custom adjustable cable shift kit for the Turbo350 since the car was a column shift.

[67Fbird]

Originally Posted by i82much

if a tiny pf48 lasts for 6500 miles on my 6.0 vortec, how many of us really need a big filter for 3k mile changes on a classic pontiac?

Coincidently...I just watched a great episode of Engine masters on OIL FILTERS. Great data learned there. Having worked for purolator yrs ago, there is more to a filter than just size! Flow rate, bypass LOCATION, anit-drainback and of course particulate size are all in the mix. Intersting to learn that the little AC Delco filter flowed 75 GALLONS a minute (363 cid Ford @6k rpm) while the FL1A flowed....77 gallons a min. both around 75 psi.

[Don 79 TA]

i had dougs D ports and round ports.
the D's just slightly trickier to install them compared the rounds. bolt access around the tubes, on the round SUPER SUPER easy to access
both are 1 7/8 tube models to 3.5 exhaust, so keep that in mind
if you get the ARP 5/16 header bolts it makes life so easy, actually enjoyable
to me, both were super easy to install, fit perfect, and great clearances
if your body mount bushings are so worn, you could have some issues, same for motor mounts
all in all great headers and the coated finish on them is awesome
the d ports i needed to use the thin long oil filter, the round ports i need to use the short fat oil filter, its the way the tubes are
the only clearance issue i see with the rounds is they are close to the lower control arm mounts, so next time i take them off, i'll just grind the LCA mount off a little, this could be a problem again depending on if you have engine mount sag or the engine flexes way too much or if you need to jack the engine up down the road, just something to keep in mind, but not a show stopper or deal breaker