[mgarblik]

Originally Posted by Sirrotica

It would require more work to adapt a hemi into the A body than it would to replace the main seal in your current engine. Also, changes to adapt it would lower the value of the Pontiac.

The engine pictured more than likely came out of a NASCAR race car, NASCAR had limited the cars to one four barrel by the late 60s.

In my dealings with,hemi is running on the street they do not make a wonderful engine because they power band is not down low where a street car is most of the time. Even though Chrysler detuned their "Street Hemi" from a race engine it did not entirely become a terror of the streets. If not kept in top tune, they can be unimpressive in a street car, lots of maintenance to keep them putting out impressive power.

My Vo Tech had a chassis dyno in the classroom and one of the students daddy bought him a 66 satellite with a street hemi in it. On the chassis dyno it had around 220 RWHP, disappointing to the owner tremendously...…….

We also had a student in the program that owned a 66 coronet, he was a mopar fan, his ran well, but he had to keep fussing with it to keep it running well. His also had 4.10 gears and a 4 speed, where the satellite had an automatic with I believe 3.55 axle. Just having a hemi between the frame rails doesn't insure you're going to beateverything on the street, it has to be at it's optimum to show it's superior engineering...……….

During my decade+ of street racing beginning in the 1974, that was my experience as well. My lowly 400 Pontiac Ram Air III never lost a race to a hemi Mopar. Had about a dozen victories against them. 440's were much more of a threat and I lost to a few along the way. Big block Chevies were next as a group, then the rest of the BOP big engines. Every now and then an FE Ford would show up and surprise everyone. Hemi engine street race cars could be fast, but only with a good tuner on board and a very well kept up engine. My friends and I kept a log book way back then and I still have it. My 70 1/2 TA was 204 wins, 15 loses, and 3 ties on the street. Fun to look at the list of cars we ran against back in the day.

[PAUL K]

Originally Posted by avman

???
I posted a pic of the 65 GTO and my 70 Roadrunner.
If you were making a joke, I missed it.

As far as the 71 anything beating a 78 anything, yeah, I get that. If you knew the smug attitude of some of the teenagers (I was a teen then too, just not "smug") I was in HS with, right after their parents bought them a brand new T/A, and how I bought my own "used car" well, maybe then you'd understand how nice it was to leave them far behind.
My 70 Roadrunner is way faster than that 71 Charger R/T was anyway. A few hotrod parts and a 6bbl setup make that 440 seem like a completely different engine.

I was referring to the funny car picture Chief posted. I understand where you are coming from, we used to prey on Mustang GT's and Grand Nationals when you could find one.

The 440 six packs were great running street cars and could probably stay in front of a Hemi until 90 mph. Kinda like comparing a Ram Air III car to a Super Duty.

[PAUL K]

Originally Posted by mgarblik

My friends and I kept a log book way back then and I still have it. My 70 1/2 TA was 204 wins, 15 loses, and 3 ties on the street. Fun to look at the list of cars we ran against back in the day.

That's awesome! My buddy used to have a 65 GTO and I had a 73 TA. He kept notes on all of our races. We lost about as often as you did and hurt a lot of feelings along the way. It still bewilders me the amount of Brand X guys that are clueless a Pontiac can run. Not that long ago we blew the mind of the dyno operator by cracking 600 horsepower (on the second pull) with a pump gas, iron d-port 455. He was sending pictures to all his Pontiac friends.

[Joe's Garage]

Mopars have always been stupid money for the rattle-tin-cans that they are.

I've had several friends who owned original Hemi cars along the way.

One friend bought a Hemi Super Bee with a bench seat and 4-speed - he owned that one twice. Once in the 80s, right as they were taking off in price. He did a paint job and interior restoration and made about $10k when he sold it. Bought it back in the late 90s for $5k less than he had sold it for and did a complete nut and bolt rotisserie restoration on it. He made about $75k that time. I think he is hoping he could buy it one more time and flip it again.

Another friend has a Hemi Challenger with only 50k original miles. Nice car but a boat anchor for what is was supposed to be. That owner was smart - he pulled that original engine out and sent it to Keith Black back in the 90s. I think he spent about $15k - a lot of cash in those days. When he got it back from Keith and reinstalled it, it was like a rocket compared to the way it was before.

And a third blew his wad (around $125k) on a Hemi Charger Daytona (and then doubled his money when he sold it about four or five years later). That one had already been restored by someone who knew how to tune Hemis - it was fast.

I was never too impressed with them. Even when they were running strong, they felt tinny and unstable at speed. I'd prefer a 440 any day.

And a Pontiac any night........

[Skip Fix]

"It still bewilders me the amount of Brand X guys that are clueless a Pontiac can run." I was when I was a Bowtie guy, but in the 70s even the Bowtie and Ford guys forgot about the 409s-when you take the 409 badges off the fenders "It's just a 348 truck motor will you give me lengths?"

[Half-Inch Stud]

The Hemi has the 4-speed setup as used on raceday; a 1973 banked oval track called Talledega. Likely NASCAR huh. Again a Penske-built HEMI pulled from racecar wrechage and stored since today...like a "barn-find".

Since quantified value discussion are rare, here's my opine;
My opinion the Full dress 426 HEMI (minus card) with 4-Speed is > 30k
My opinion a 73 SD455 engine (minus carb) > $14k
while a 74 SD455 (minus carn) ~ $14 k

[77 Canamman]

Originally Posted by avman

If you owned the ugliest Roadrunner ever made, 71-74, I understand how you like screaming chickens.
My point wasn't to bash ANY car, it was to call out someone who was.

So, why are you here? You are better suited over at Moparts..

[PAUL K]

Originally Posted by Skip Fix

"It still bewilders me the amount of Brand X guys that are clueless a Pontiac can run." I was when I was a Bowtie guy, but in the 70s even the Bowtie and Ford guys forgot about the 409s-when you take the 409 badges off the fenders "It's just a 348 truck motor will you give me lengths?"

Nice!

[Chief of the 60's]

Originally Posted by PAUL K

Also not sure what a picture of a modern day Funny car has to do with this thread...but it is a cool picture.

It was to point out that there was no Super Duty or even an LS in Force's Camaro as well as how GM makes sure their sponsored team hides the fact that there is a HEMI powering that Camaro. That is why the Hemi is worth what it is.

[PAUL K]

Originally Posted by Chief of the 60's

It was to point out that there was no Super Duty or even an LS in Force's Camaro as well as how GM makes sure their sponsored team hides the fact that there is a HEMI powering that Camaro. That is why the Hemi is worth what it is.

You do realize that the Hemi in that picture has almost zero in common with the Hemi's we're discussing in this thread?... But still a nice picture

[avman]

Originally Posted by 77 Canamman

So, why are you here? You are better suited over at Moparts..

I'm here to share experiences and get and give help with members of this forum. My "wife's car" is a very nice 65 421 Tripower GTO that I have done and am about to do quite a bit of work on, mostly modifications and new equipment substitutions.
If you have to ask, obviously, so far, you haven't been one of the ones that has helped or been helped by me.
I got involved in this thread because I think it's juvenile to call a "brand" of car ugly, like someone did, and because I have some experience with the value of HEMIs. My example was what I did as a teenager, when my attitude was "Mopar or no car" that you first responded to.
Fortunately I didn't have to have your permission to join, or explain to your satisfaction "what I'm here for" but I did anyway.
In the interest of forum decorum, and not reverting back to the example of what I think is juvenile behavior, I think I'll leave it at that.

[242177P]

Originally Posted by Chief of the 60's

It was to point out that there was no Super Duty or even an LS in Force's Camaro ...

And John Force drove that Camaro to the track, right?

PY Online Forums - Bringing the Pontiac Hobby Together > General Classic PONTIAC TECH > Pontiac - Street

[242177P]

Originally Posted by avman

... I have some experience with the value of HEMIs.

PaulK posted some numbers. And BVZ. And HIS. Just saying.

[b-man]

Are we done yet?

Okay, good!