#21  
Old 10-16-2019, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by 72projectbird View Post
The RAIV are king of the 2nd gens imo.

It's a beautiful car! I wish it had bright blue interior, but you cant be too picky when it comes to these cars.

My RAIII has bright blue... wish it had black..

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  #22  
Old 10-16-2019, 07:13 PM
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This is the car that sold for $150K about a year ago, from the "Jack & Donna Steele" collection, at Worldwide Auctioneers in Auburn, IN.

The selling dealer's website says, "In terms of present condition, this 1970 Pontiac Firebird Trans Am Hardtop is absolutely breathtaking with an immaculate, blemish-free exterior and sensational paint." I looked the car over at the auction last year, and the paint was definitely not "blemish-free". So perhaps it's had some work done since then.

And without some documentation, I'm not buying the selling dealer's statement that the "the powers to be at Pontiac Motor Division ordered this car to be built without the factory rear sway bar. We can only assume that the Marketing People wanted to put the tire smoking capabilities of this rare RAM AIR IV Trans Am on full display to impress the automotive journalists writing about this beast." It would have been easy enough not to bolt one on, I suppose, but the car is missing the welded-on brackets on the rear frame rails, as well.

They could put correct rear quarter trim panels in it for $250K, too.

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  #23  
Old 10-16-2019, 08:09 PM
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I figured that the early pre-production shifter handle on a very late production car looking this nice meant someone went through it, and made it to present very well.
I'm with you on the rear swaybar part...

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1970 Formula 400
Carousel Red paint on Black standard interior
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Quite likely one of few '70 Muncie three speed Formula 400's left.


1991 Grand Am: 14.4 @ 93.7mph (DA corrected) (retired DD, stock appearing)
2009 Cobalt SS: 13.9 @ 103mph (current DD; makes something north of 300hp & 350ft/lbs)
  #24  
Old 10-16-2019, 10:22 PM
Tellyshavilli Tellyshavilli is offline
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I looked at this car up in Syracuse New York in 1985 ,at that time it had just been purchased from the original owner and it was painted white

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Old 10-17-2019, 06:58 AM
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Did you know it was originally Lucerne Blue?
Wonder why they would paint it white?
(love Lucerne Blue )



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  #26  
Old 10-17-2019, 07:05 AM
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Originally Posted by johnta1 View Post
Did you know it was originally Lucerne Blue?
Wonder why they would paint it white?
(love Lucerne Blue )


Yes , I looked it over very thoroughly , was trying to buy it . It was bought as gift to daughter and at sometime she decided to go white . Was very original car

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Old 10-17-2019, 10:19 AM
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what was their asking price back in 1985?

  #28  
Old 10-17-2019, 10:36 AM
Baron Von Zeppelin Baron Von Zeppelin is offline
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Originally Posted by keith k View Post
This is the car that sold for $150K about a year ago, from the "Jack & Donna Steele" collection, at Worldwide Auctioneers in Auburn, IN.
Thanks for bringing us up to speed on this being that car.
I remember the car didn't bid well or get good reviews from observers.
Although the Bandit type TA's at the same auction were going nuclear.
So there was money in the house, car just wasn't pulling its weight at the time.




Quote:
Originally Posted by johnta1 View Post
Wonder why they would paint it white?
Historically, White outsold Blue every year.
Blue ratio dropped every year.
73 they even Dropped Blue altogether it got so bad
... but we all know this .


and i'm just having fun making fun of it
I know guys love their Lucy's

White probably worked better over top of all the Syracuse body work back then.

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Old 10-17-2019, 12:38 PM
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Not that it matters, I used to prefer blue, but these days I find I prefer white...

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1970 Formula 400
Carousel Red paint on Black standard interior
A no-engine, no-transmission, no-wheel option car.
Quite likely one of few '70 Muncie three speed Formula 400's left.


1991 Grand Am: 14.4 @ 93.7mph (DA corrected) (retired DD, stock appearing)
2009 Cobalt SS: 13.9 @ 103mph (current DD; makes something north of 300hp & 350ft/lbs)
  #30  
Old 10-17-2019, 02:15 PM
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Originally Posted by keith k View Post
This is the car that sold for $150K about a year ago, from the "Jack & Donna Steele" collection, at Worldwide Auctioneers in Auburn, IN.



And without some documentation, I'm not buying the selling dealer's statement that the "the powers to be at Pontiac Motor Division ordered this car to be built without the factory rear sway bar. We can only assume that the Marketing People wanted to put the tire smoking capabilities of this rare RAM AIR IV Trans Am on full display to impress the automotive journalists writing about this beast." It would have been easy enough not to bolt one on, I suppose, but the car is missing the welded-on brackets on the rear frame rails, as well.

They could put correct rear quarter trim panels in it for $250K, too.
Its one this to BS when you are selling a car for 5 to 10k. If you do it for 250k its no longer BS. A good friend of mine told me never F with someone who has more money than you because they can make your life miserable.

  #31  
Old 10-17-2019, 09:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unruhjonny View Post
Not that it matters, I used to prefer blue, but these days I find I prefer white...
I think the white cars out sold the blue as IMO, they look nicer. That being said, I would love a blue car with white interior. Kind of like a brewster 73. I don't care for that color at all but would like one now as the color is different.

For all the blue car and brewster car owners, don't hate, just giving my opinion.

  #32  
Old 10-18-2019, 09:35 AM
Tellyshavilli Tellyshavilli is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muscle_collector View Post
what was their asking price back in 1985?
I was not able to talk him into selling it

  #33  
Old 10-19-2019, 09:02 PM
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Sway bar mounts were welded on the fisher body line, once a true Identity was known. I dont buy the story, without some verified paperwork.
Pontiac never did that with any other cars.. This is a piss poor reason.
Could be a Ram Air Esprit...

  #34  
Old 10-19-2019, 09:33 PM
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I wonder if they are mistaking the supposedly smaller sway bars installed on some TA's in 1970?

I've never found a bulletin on it, but some have said theirs are the Formula size.

But that doesn't make it missing altogether. That would be a serious mistake especially for the TA.

Possibly used some replacement frames or from a regular Firebird?

Wonder what size the front bar is?


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  #35  
Old 10-20-2019, 09:32 AM
Tellyshavilli Tellyshavilli is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnta1 View Post
I wonder if they are mistaking the supposedly smaller sway bars installed on some TA's in 1970?

I've never found a bulletin on it, but some have said theirs are the Formula size.

But that doesn't make it missing altogether. That would be a serious mistake especially for the TA.

Possibly used some replacement frames or from a regular Firebird?

Wonder what size the front bar is?

Not supposedly .Smaller diameter rear sway bars did come on many of the 70 Trans Ams with no rhyme or reason why ! On early and late cars

  #36  
Old 10-20-2019, 10:11 AM
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i believe the most logical reason was an insufficientsupply of the TA rear bars, as this was an 11th hour change for the TA, and it's probable the supplier couldn't retool and keep up with demand... or something like that.

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1970 Formula 400
Carousel Red paint on Black standard interior
A no-engine, no-transmission, no-wheel option car.
Quite likely one of few '70 Muncie three speed Formula 400's left.


1991 Grand Am: 14.4 @ 93.7mph (DA corrected) (retired DD, stock appearing)
2009 Cobalt SS: 13.9 @ 103mph (current DD; makes something north of 300hp & 350ft/lbs)
  #37  
Old 10-23-2019, 11:10 PM
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FWIW on the smaller sway bars,...my one family owned Van Nuys 05D TA has the small (Formula) bars on both ends. Build Sheet still says F41 for Special Performance Suspension though.

The Blue RAIV TA is an older restoration and was done nicely, although not totally correct. I too was bidding on it at Worldwide, but based on what I knew, I thought the $150K paid there was close to right on market for how it presented. The current sellers may have "fluffed" it some, but I can't see $100K of "fluffing".

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  #38  
Old 10-27-2019, 06:07 PM
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Nothing special to add....just wanted to comment that it seems like a pretty nice car. Those second gen F body cars have great styling inside and out.

I think the cam sounds about right. Pretty much like my 68 L67 manual trans car (which would have had the same 041 cam). Curious if anyone knows about how much vacuum I should expect at idle with that cam? I see about 14 lbs at idle when warm. Is that about right?

Here is a video if anyone is curious enough to see how it idles.
https://youtu.be/lYc3jI-JA4M

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