[3tas4me]

Does anyone know if there is a guide anywhere either on here ( I searched) or on the internet in general to help with identifying aftermarket T-tops that were installed on our cars and if there are any sources for parts?

I just picked up a Martinique Blue 1978 Trans Am. The car had aftermarket T-tops installed either before delivery or right after. I bought the car from the original owner, but unfortunately, because of his age, he doesn't remember the details. He claims he ordered the car this way (he also claims GM installed the side pipes that are on the car as well). Of course, if he had ordered T-tops from GM, he would have either got Hurst or Fisher, depending on production date. The T-tops on this car are neither Hurst nor Fishers. My first thought when I saw the car is that they were C & C (Cars & Concepts) T-tops. I searched the glass for any identifying markings and found none.

Once I got the car home and cleaned it up. I found one piece of paper in the glove box that gave me a clue. It is a paper that reads "Operation and Maintenance of your Safelite Skylite". Obviously, these are Safelite brand T-tops and at this point I am making the assumption that this is the same brand as the Safelite auto glass company.

So, back to my original point or question. Does anyone have a guide to the different aftermarket T-tops manufacturers and any pics or info to go with it? If not, maybe we can do that in this thread. I think it could be helpful to people in the future who buy these cars and are looking for some way to identify their T-tops and/or search for parts. I will post up some pics of the T-tops on this car and the literature.

[Held for Ransom]

http://www.hitmantransam.com/Pages/ttops.htm

[3tas4me]

Originally Posted by Held for Ransom

http://www.hitmantransam.com/Pages/ttops.htm

Thanks for posting this link. Unfortunately, this only covers two of the aftermarket manufacturers, American T-top and C&C. As shown by this '78 I just bought, there is at least one other manufacturer of aftermarket T-tops and probably several others. Also, the pictures on that site don't show much detail.

I find it interesting that the author on Hitman claims that both the Hurst and Fisher T-tops were of poor design. I disagree. I think the Hurst T-tops were worse as the roof had to be cut out with a sawzall to install the panels. At least the Fisher T-tops were designed with a specific roof panel stamping for the T-top application. Given that the second gen cars were never designed to have part of the roof structure removed, my Fisher T-top cars do not suffer the problems they supposedly all had.

[Grand73Am]

I agree. I was surprised he included the Fishers as poor design. I think they're quite good. I like the size and the way they work. Mine still have the original weatherstrips and I haven't had any leaking problems, even when caught in heavy rain. And they look good.

So, the tops you're asking about don't meet in the middle like C&C's? It'll be interesting to see a photo of them.

[Ben M.]

That is the Safelite version of t-tops (Skylite was their trademark for it). They offered them on practically every 2-door car in the late 1970s until the very early 1980s. They are very similar to the Cars & Concepts top, almost so similar that I wonder if they were the same engineering or licensed from them. They appear close enough that you can use some parts\gaskets for them, but I am far from an expert in how true that is.

Safelite obviously does not support them anymore as they haven't offered them in over 35 years.

I think I have seen maybe 1 or 2 cars over the years that had them and they usually get lumped in with C&C ones. One set was on a Monte Carlo in the junkyard in San Diego 15 years ago.

[Grand73Am]

The advertisement for the C&C tops on Hitmans site does show "Skylite" in the name of the tops on the right side of the ad. So Skylite and Safelite may be one and the same.

cctopsp by grand73am, on Flickr

[3tas4me]

Originally Posted by Grand73Am

The advertisement for the C&C tops on Hitmans site does show "Skylite" in the name of the tops on the right side of the ad. So Skylite and Safelite may be one and the same.

cctopsp by grand73am, on Flickr

Interesting! Skylite is the name on the Safelite card I have. Someone above mentioned that the Safelite and C&C tops look almost identical. Maybe Safelite made them for C&C as well?

[FrankieT/A]

In the early '80's a friend of mine had a 79 Camaro, the T-top was cut in and I remember the glass almost touched at the center when installed. I didn't bother to scrutinize because they weren't Fisher and his car was a base Camaro.

[Peter Serio]

The Hurst hatches are easily identifiable as the glass sections don't reach all the way in towards the center of the roofline. The Hurst glass lift-out panels were smaller and a little bit easier to lift in & out and store in the trunk as a result.

[3tas4me]

I took some pics. First is the Safelite literature that came with the car. Second is a top view of the T-top panels. Third is the inside latch mechanism.

[Ben M.]

Those are C&C style t-tops. As I said earlier, whether they were a unique design by Safelite or licensed to them from someone else (C&C) I can't say, that's the name people in the community tend to refer to them by. The targa-like middle and no metal trim around the edges are the giveaway.

Safelite Skylite appears to be the catch-all marketing term for Safelite's sunroof line from this era.

Do they leak?

[FrankieT/A]

I like those better than Hurst Hatches....Question is can you still get weatherstrip?

[TAKerry]

No weather stripping available for C n C tops. There was a guy that was making a conglomeration of a couple of types that supposedly would work. I suppose if need be, one could get a generic profile that is somewhat close and make it fit. Dick Chrysler was an engineer for Hurst, he went on to own that company. When he sold it he started his own company, Cars and Concepts.

[Grand73Am]

I found this quote from Pete at Fbodywarehouse.com . It's from 6 years ago, but he may still offer the kit, or can give advice about it. I also found the instruction sheets for the "kit" that he made. Link to kit instructions also below:

"I make an "assemble at home" version of the CnC t-top seals. They look pretty good but are "some assembly required". I sell them at $149 for the roof sections. In a nut shell it is a set of hardtop seals for the A and B pillars and 2 trunk seals (fit like a glove in the galley around the opening) Some home door rubber sealing strips for the transition and glue and weather seal glue plus written directions. They turn out pretty good and for $149 how can ya go wrong."

Link to kit instructions: https://fbodywarehouse.com/restorati...Directions.pdf

Another link found to a thread from Pete about his kit: http://transamcountry.com/community/...?topic=59681.0

Here's a post on 78ta.com about C&C tops too: http://www.78ta.com/HTAF/index.php?topic=39113.0

Also, just found this GREAT info page about C&C tops from Hogshead. Nearly everything you'd want to know about C&C's: https://www.firebirdtransamparts.com...tops/candc.htm

[3tas4me]

Do they leak?[/QUOTE]

Oddly, they don't. I was quite surprised as I expected them to leak like a sieve. They didn't leak a single drop when I washed the car.

[Briigrl]

http://www.tacreationsusa.com/t-tops...s.htm#American

They have a partial list w picts & detailed descriptions. While I don't have a Pontiac (my sinceeeerest appologies! LOL) We DO have a T-top vehicle and the same issues. LOL.

We a 1977 Monte Carlo Landau w "factory installed t-tops" per the order spec sheet. So, GM farmed ours out to 'American T-tops' out of TX, not Fisher like other GM vehicles!! (Our car was ordered on the West Coast.) Of course, we r in the same boat... needing parts from companies that have closed down! Uuugh. The link above for tacreations doesn't have a pic OR description of our tops! So, we'll be sending THAT tom! However, we've been told they are remarkably similar to the Hurst tops.

Hubs & I have been in contact w a manufacturer who MAY be willing to create molds & new rubber seals!! HOWEVER, we have to show that there are enough ppl in need to make it worth their while to do so AND I have to provide a new old stock seal (or set). We HAVE secured an NOS 'American T-top' left seal in order for them to duplicate IF we have enough interest!!! So now we are gathering a list of interested ppl. We started a few days ago & we have about 10 ppl!! PLEEEASE, feel free to spread the word, because I see that none of ya'll have even heard of them let alone have them! LOL. They can be ID'd by the 'American T-Tops' name and town in TX that is etched in the corner of the glass.

Perhaps if they r willing to re-make American's, they might eventually do the same for the other Companies: Fisher; C&C...

[TAKerry]

That is good info. No apologies needed. I have C n C on my trans am with original weather stripping. It is a bit on the stiff side but still functions. I contacted Steele Rubber many years ago and they were willing to 'give it a try' at a repro seal but they needed an original set which meant I would have to remove them from my car. There was no guarantee they could do it and the cost was estimated around $2k ! I hardly paid that for the car and decided to live with what I have. I look around every once in awhile hoping that someday someone will come up with something.

I find it hard to believe that someone that makes weather stripping cannot simply measure a top and design a new piece without having an original.

The design of the C n C is very good and is the platform the 3rd gens used. I spoke with an engineer that worked for Hurst that knew Dick Chrysler personally and had some great information on the C n C tops. After Dick sold Hurst he started Cars n Concepts. They had a large factory in Detroit where cars were shipped for installation. This fellow I talked to had some great pictures and 'insider' information stuff but this was all his own personal library stuff. I regret that I forget his name perhaps someone that was at the BPOC show in West Chester a couple of years would know. I believe this fellow had something to do with the design/development of the pistol grip shifter as well.

[3tas4me]

This is all good information. I no longer have the blue '78, but I keep in touch with the new owner so I can mention this thread if he has any comments. Too bad someone didn't order extra parts when these things were new, would have saved some headaches today.

[fireprix]

Originally Posted by Briigrl

http://www.tacreationsusa.com/t-tops...s.htm#American

They have a partial list w picts & detailed descriptions. While I don't have a Pontiac (my sinceeeerest appologies! LOL) We DO have a T-top vehicle and the same issues. LOL.

We a 1977 Monte Carlo Landau w "factory installed t-tops" per the order spec sheet. So, GM farmed ours out to 'American T-tops' out of TX, not Fisher like other GM vehicles!! (Our car was ordered on the West Coast.) Of course, we r in the same boat... needing parts from companies that have closed down! Uuugh. The link above for tacreations doesn't have a pic OR description of our tops! So, we'll be sending THAT tom! However, we've been told they are remarkably similar to the Hurst tops.

Hubs & I have been in contact w a manufacturer who MAY be willing to create molds & new rubber seals!! HOWEVER, we have to show that there are enough ppl in need to make it worth their while to do so AND I have to provide a new old stock seal (or set). We HAVE secured an NOS 'American T-top' left seal in order for them to duplicate IF we have enough interest!!! So now we are gathering a list of interested ppl. We started a few days ago & we have about 10 ppl!! PLEEEASE, feel free to spread the word, because I see that none of ya'll have even heard of them let alone have them! LOL. They can be ID'd by the 'American T-Tops' name and town in TX that is etched in the corner of the glass.

Perhaps if they r willing to re-make American's, they might eventually do the same for the other Companies: Fisher; C&C...

I have a 75 GP with American T Tops and would definitely be interested in buying a set of seals for them if they were being made. I have read somewhere that since the American and Hurst T Tops were very similar, the Hurst seals can be used but you have to buy 2 sets and splice them together since the Americans are slightly bigger than the Hurst. I can’t verify as I haven’t tried this. Fortunately mine don’t leak much (probably because the car lives in a garage) but would still be interested in getting a set if they were being reproduced.

[burd]

American Hatches, I have an ad from them, showing a TA with t tops.