[69*Goat]

Ok, got a head scratcher here. A stroked 400 to a 461. My old cam and head combination was 9.5:1 #46 heads flowing 250CFM with the SD Stump puller cam. I had a short snout stamped impeller water pump that I clearance the divider plate on, and this engine would NEVER get above 180 deg. Now, I have swapped to Kauffman D-ports flowing 305CFM,10.6:1CR using the "Old Faithful" cam, and I have changed to a long snout cast impeller water pump. I also clearanced the divider plate, but this darn thing wants to stay at 200-220. It may be running a little lean, but I did some carb work on it today which improved it a little, but it is still running warmer than I like. I am running only water in the system right now, with a regular 180 thermostat.

Timing is 10 initial, 32 total

Any suggestions on where to start looking for the problem?

[AdamIsAdam]

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[69*Goat]

Ok, did some investigating when I got home.

Timing:

The total is 30, not 32. That is W/O any vacuum advance. If I hook it to ported vacuum, I get 36, if I hook it to manifold, I get 42.

I have a vacuum leak on the carb where the choke can /pot is bolted to the carb. I bet that is affecting what the ported vac on the carb is pulling. It is only pulling 5-7 inches of vacuum just off idle, where the manifold is pulling close to 20 inches just off idle.

Until I get this sieve of a carb changed, or fixed, there is not much more I can look at.

[AdamIsAdam]

My understanding is that ported vacuum line should give you zero vacuum and thus zero advance at idle.

Also, 20" is a lot for your combo at idle. Others will chime in I'm sure. I have 12" and less of a cam as I recall.

[69*Goat]

I'm about at my wits end with the temp issue. I have gotten the carb mixture right, I have the timing set at 32 deg total without vacuum advance, and I have the vac adv hooked to manifold vacuum. This is a new engine, i have put 100 miles on it, and after getting all of the above adjustments done the temp did drop to between 195-200. it is not getting above 200 right now. As I stated before, my old Iron headed set up never ran hotter than 185, all day long it would stay at 185. The CR with the iron heads was 9.5:1, and I know that it was running lean. My new aluminum headed set up has a CR of 10.6:1 and the AFR is where it should be.

Is the new setup the culprit?

Could the cast impeller water pump be pushing too much water through the system? and not allowing it to sit in the radiator long enough (That was one suggestion given to me)

I am going to go home and pull the thermostat housing and see what I see. I do remember when I pulled the engine apart for the new upgrades that the thermostat was wedged in the water crossover at an angle which was allowing water to get past the thermostat basically making it a restriction instead of blocking it off and waiting for the thermostat to open.

You guys have any suggestions?

[ponyakr]

I'm certainly no cooling expert. But I've read that 12-14 initial and 34-36 total will usually run a few degrees cooler than 10 & 30.

And, are you using an adjustable vac can, so you can reduce the vac advance from the high intake vac advance numbers numbers ?

Are you running the same advance numbers you were with the other engine ?

I didn't see it mentioned, but are you using the same fan, shroud, and rad as before ?

I'm just assuming that with the extra energy generated by the lager engine, it will just naturally produce more heat. So, you may need to upgrade the entire system--bigger radiator, more fan power, etc.

The question of tranny cooling lines, usually comes up. If the fluid is routed thru the rad, that warms the coolant. And if an aux cooler is used and is directly in front of the rad, that will slightly increase coolant temp, by heat transfer and making it harder to pull air thru the rad and the tranny cooler. Hey, ALL these little things can add up to cooling problems.

Anybody have any luck with a GOOD pusher fan in front of the radiator, or AC condenser if you have one, as a helper for slow speed situations ? I read that one guy bought one and it hardly blew any air at all.

Another cooling question. I read that an electric fan from a Lincoln Mark VIII, will suck 5000cfm of air, on high speed. Anybody tried one ?

http://www.hotrod.com/how-to/engine/...ooling-system/

http://www.ebay.com/bhp/mark-viii-fan

[72LuxuryLeMansLa.]

Originally Posted by 69*Goat

I'm about at my wits end with the temp issue. I have gotten the carb mixture right, I have the timing set at 32 deg total without vacuum advance, and I have the vac adv hooked to manifold vacuum. This is a new engine, i have put 100 miles on it, and after getting all of the above adjustments done the temp did drop to between 195-200. it is not getting above 200 right now. As I stated before, my old Iron headed set up never ran hotter than 185, all day long it would stay at 185. The CR with the iron heads was 9.5:1, and I know that it was running lean. My new aluminum headed set up has a CR of 10.6:1 and the AFR is where it should be.

Is the new setup the culprit?

Could the cast impeller water pump be pushing too much water through the system? and not allowing it to sit in the radiator long enough (That was one suggestion given to me)

I am going to go home and pull the thermostat housing and see what I see. I do remember when I pulled the engine apart for the new upgrades that the thermostat was wedged in the water crossover at an angle which was allowing water to get past the thermostat basically making it a restriction instead of blocking it off and waiting for the thermostat to open.

You guys have any suggestions?

Is this the same bottom end as before? What is the quench distance? Being new there can be some tightness causing excess friction and thereby more heat.....With regards to the thermostat, did you verify it's opening temp with a thermometer in a pot of water before install? There is almost no quality control these days and I've had 180°F thermostats open at 195-200°F.....That being said 200°F while not ideal is not going to hurt anything.

[69*Goat]

Originally Posted by ponyakr

I'm certainly no cooling expert. But I've read that 12-14 initial and 34-36 total will usually run a few degrees cooler than 10 & 30.

Actually I am running 12 Initial now, with 20 Mechanical for 32 total. Jeff Kauffman told me that these heads don't really like more than 32 Degrees of timing (Not including Vac adv).

Originally Posted by ponyakr

And, are you using an adjustable vac can, so you can reduce the vac advance from the high intake vac advance numbers numbers ?

No Adj Vac can.

Originally Posted by ponyakr

Are you running the same advance numbers you were with the other engine ?

Yes, the only difference this go round is: I was using ported vacuum with the old set up.

Originally Posted by ponyakr

I didn't see it mentioned, but are you using the same fan, shroud, and rad as before ?

Yes

Originally Posted by ponyakr

I'm just assuming that with the extra energy generated by the lager engine, it will just naturally produce more heat. So, you may need to upgrade the entire system--bigger radiator, more fan power, etc.

It was same bore and stroke with the Iron heads on it. Maybe the higher Compression ratio.

Originally Posted by ponyakr

The question of tranny cooling lines, usually comes up. If the fluid is routed thru the rad, that warms the coolant. And if an aux cooler is used and is directly in front of the rad, that will slightly increase coolant temp, by heat transfer and making it harder to pull air thru the rad and the tranny cooler. Hey, ALL these little things can add up to cooling problems.

Yes, bigger trans cooler this go round 12" x 12" as opposed to 9" x 7" that was on it. The cooler is standing away from the radiator by about an 1".

Originally Posted by ponyakr

Anybody have any luck with a GOOD pusher fan in front of the radiator, or AC condenser if you have one, as a helper for slow speed situations ? I read that one guy bought one and it hardly blew any air at all.

I pulled All of the A/c Components off several years ago.

[69*Goat]

Originally Posted by 72LuxuryLeMansLa.

Is this the same bottom end as before? What is the quench distance? Being new there can be some tightness causing excess friction and thereby more heat.....With regards to the thermostat, did you verify it's opening temp with a thermometer in a pot of water before install? There is almost no quality control these days and I've had 180°F thermostats open at 195-200°F.....That being said 200°F while not ideal is not going to hurt anything.

Same bottom end as before, the only difference this time is Coated bearings, and coated piston skirts. I did not check the thermostat before install. I will do that tonight.

[72LuxuryLeMansLa.]

Originally Posted by 69*Goat

Same bottom end as before, the only difference this time is Coated bearings, and coated piston skirts. I did not check the thermostat before install. I will do that tonight.

It was rebuilt then....This is what I mean about it being new/not broke in yet. I've even read that one of the guys on here had a rope seal that was too tight and it caused high temps.....

[69*Goat]

Originally Posted by 72LuxuryLeMansLa.

It was rebuilt then....This is what I mean about it being new/not broke in yet. I've even read that one of the guys on here had a rope seal that was too tight and it caused high temps.....

Wow... BOP seal here.

[frbformula]

Get a laser temp gun and check the temps going into the radiator and coming out of the radiator. Also check temps where you sending unit is to verify that it is still reading correctly.

[Schurkey]

Originally Posted by 69*Goat

Could the cast impeller water pump be pushing too much water through the system? and not allowing it to sit in the radiator long enough (That was one suggestion given to me)

Stop trusting whoever told you that.

Originally Posted by 69*Goat

the thermostat was wedged in the water crossover at an angle which was allowing water to get past the thermostat basically making it a restriction instead of blocking it off and waiting for the thermostat to open.

That is NOT POSSIBLE if you have the proper thermostat and a correct-size thermo housing/water outlet. This is the first thing to inspect and repair.

[Chris65LeMans]

You said previously that the car doesn't get above 200. I'm not hearing a problem in there.

[Larry Navarro]

http://www.hotrod.com/how-to/engine/...ystem-upgrade/

[72LuxuryLeMansLa.]

Originally Posted by Larry Navarro

http://www.hotrod.com/how-to/engine/...ystem-upgrade/

So he had mismatched parts.......

[1967Tempest]

200* at idle or 200* doing 65 down the road.

Idle is usually effected by air movement through the rad and air in the system.

Highway speeds is either air is not going through the rad, but around it, or coolant movement.

If my car is running 195* and I am going down RT 15 here (Huge 4 mile downhill 55 MPH highway), the second I put it in neutral, the temps shoot up to over 205*. Almost instantly. I have the Lincoln Mark VIII electric fan set-up. Then when I get to the bottom of the hill, throw it 5th gear, the temps shoot down to under 170*. As soon as the RPM's of the water pump increase.

Also where is your temp sensor? In the coolant crossover? Keep in mind that spot is where the engine is putting out the hottest coolant back to the radiator.

New T-stat? (although the t-stat only regulates the MINIMUM operating temperature.)

Air sealing kit around rad?

Down flow or cross flow? Down flows seem to have issues if the rad hose is higher that the return inlet, air gets trapped.

Lower rad hose have the spring in it?

Are you sure that you burpped all of the air out of the system?

Mechanical or electric gauge?

ANd yes, if you are getting vacuum at the ported line at idle the carb has an issue.

[69*Goat]

Originally Posted by Chris65LeMans

You said previously that the car doesn't get above 200. I'm not hearing a problem in there.

Going from a Constant 180-185 to 200 bothers me...

Oil pressure decreases 5-7 PSI at that temp, and that bothers me...

Call me anal... :/

[69*Goat]

I did change over to Aluminum Pulleys from Ram Air Restoration with this build. After reading Larry's post, maybe I need to check that as well.

[AdamIsAdam]

Originally Posted by 69*Goat

Going from a Constant 180-185 to 200 bothers me...

Oil pressure decreases 5-7 PSI at that temp, and that bothers me...

Call me anal... :/

X2!