[mgarblik]

As many on the forum know, I have been begging for our vendors to consider an iron replacement head for our Pontiacs for about 15 years. This thread is to gauge interest in reference to the other thread running about "cast iron head porters" in our Pontiac world. I didn't want to clog up that thread with my ramblings. So this is my specific question: How many of you guys would consider buying an off the shelf NEW cast iron head. D port, stock valve locations, a couple different chamber volumes, peak flow out of the box 280 CFM on the intake side. Essentially a replacement iron head better than anything ever offered by PMD from the factory. Probably around $800.00 a pair bare. Maybe the time is finally right?

[PAUL K]

I'm in

[25stevem]

I would be interested, but no so much concerned with different chamber volumes so much, but if the basic chamber is very efficient( becase if it works well you want to keep its shape, and not change it for compression reasons ) but different port volumes are a concern to me.

We can get dished Pistons made darn easy these days to to the needed target compression , but maintaining the best average port volume for a give CID and rpm operating range is very big part of the power puzzle!

If they where to start off with 2.11 " Intake then having a minimum port wall thickness of .220" would be big plus.

[77 TRASHCAN]

Yes, you bet your bippy!!!
I have some Chevrolet heads, one set on an engine, not installed in a vehicle...yet, very long story.
I also have a set on the shelf

Both are World Products parts..the quality is excellent. Man if they would make Pontiac heads!!!

The ports could be improved, the chambers could be modern stuff and the spark plug location could be altered, at least some. None of these "upgrades" would have to change anything concerning the interchangeability of head related parts or intertchangeabilty of the heads themselves!!!

The mass marketing automobile world should know, that Pontiac enthusiasts are pretty dedicated to their brand!!!

I don't know who runs World products. But I'd like the opportunity to bend their ear for at least 15 minutes.

Arnie did this with Vic Edelbrock. Years ago, we all know the results!!!

[mgarblik]

Just in the conversation stage once again but to be cost effective, the overall casting and chamber shape would be some adaptation of the existing Edelbrock/Kauffman/Speedmaster aluminum heads, D-port in iron. The thought process is an inexpensive, replacement for worn out 50-60 year old heads for street cars. A chance to bring these old engines back to life with some performance increase without resorting to LS transplants in many cases. The look and dependability of iron vs aluminum for stock and mild upgrades. Edelbrock, Tigers, Wenzler, Kauffman, Speedmaster, DCI, McCarty, all those available for more serious builds and racing. Nothing, ZERO available for iron head guys.

[mgarblik]

Originally Posted by 77 TRASHCAN

Yes, you bet your bippy!!!
I have some Chevrolet heads, one set on an engine, not installed in a vehicle...yet, very long story.
I also have a set on the shelf

Both are World Products parts..the quality is excellent. Man if they would make Pontiac heads!!!

The ports could be improved, the chambers could be modern stuff and the spark plug location could be altered, at least some. None of these "upgrades" would have to change anything concerning the interchangeability of head related parts or intertchangeabilty of the heads themselves!!!

The mass marketing automobile world should know, that Pontiac enthusiasts are pretty dedicated to their brand!!!

I don't know who runs World products. But I'd like the opportunity to bend their ear for at least 15 minutes.

Arnie did this with Vic Edelbrock. Years ago, we all know the results!!!

I have personally talked to about 20 vendors of cast iron heads for Chevy and Ford products. Over about 15 years. Dart and World wanted a commitment of of 1000 pairs of heads to share the cost of molds/patterns and cores. That's allot of heads for a niche product. But I also talked to some smaller foundries that were more in tune to smaller runs. Obviously, people in the Pontiac world are willing to spend $1500.00 on old worn out, 60 year old heads to have guides installed, cleaned and surfaced, hard seats and a valve job. How about a new head with all that crap done for just over half that? Then any additional cost is to improve the flow further. Again, just spit balling here.

[Tom Vaught]

The cast iron 280 cfm heads ("D"-Port") would for sure keep the Pontiac Engine alive for a few more years if the basic price was Affordable.

Tom V.

[BILL BOWMAN1]

Yes!

[grivera]

Hell yes!

[400 Lemans]

Count me in.

[RocktimusPryme]

I am not in the market, but I think it all depends on if it can bridge a price gap. I think people are often pushed above their budget for aluminum heads because its gotten so expensive to rebuild iron heads. So yeah, if a modestly priced iron head could be delivered that would fill a gap in the market I think it would sell. It would help people get their projects on the road sooner rather than having to wait for next years tax return.

[imposter]

all in id buy

[JLMounce]

I'm not currently in the market, already having a set of KRE D ports. However I'd certainly be interested if I ever did a more cruiser oriented engine built down the road.

[Nobuddy]

$800 per pair bare is ridiculously low. If US made anyway. Small block Chevy World S/R or Dart Iron Eagle are around $500 each.

[65madgoat]

Is there really a demand for iron heads? With so many casting numbers, not like just one could be re-made to be a replica of an uber rare head set and actually sell, and just don't see the reason for an iron head. Heavy, holds heat, etc.

[Nobuddy]

Originally Posted by 65madgoat

Is there really a demand for iron heads? With so many casting numbers, not like just one could be re-made to be a replica of an uber rare head set and actually sell, and just don't see the reason for an iron head. Heavy, holds heat, etc.

I think there is a fantasy that iron heads would somehow be less expensive even in the tiny volume of the Pontiac market.

[MatthewKlein]

Is iron cheaper to cast than aluminum?

Just from a quick google:
"Aluminum as raw material costs more than iron ore. But when it comes to casting aluminum vs cast iron components, casting aluminum components are cheaper. This is because the most convenient casting method is die casting."

You are wanting a cast iron head because it will be cheaper to produce or because you want it to look original?

[Bruce Meyer]

IMHO. I don't think they would sell. The restoration guys wouldn't buy them without the casting #,s and date codes that fit their needs. It would be a nightmare to try to please those guys demands. The guys that want to build power would just buy aluminum heads.
You can still find the big valve factory d port heads for reasonable prices. Im thinking that copies of the 1969 RA 4 heads would be a better bet. The date codes were missing on those so the resto guys couldn't complain.

[Lee]

Reality check - there is an iron shortage right now.

https://www.spglobal.com/marketintel...-push-70947714

[hurryinhoosier62]

Originally Posted by Nobuddy

$800 per pair bare is ridiculously low. If US made anyway. Small block Chevy World S/R or Dart Iron Eagle are around $500 each.

SBC Vortec iron heads sold by Engine Components in Chicago are cast in New Zealand. They sell for around $350 per bare head. The castings are immaculate, without the associated cracked problems and thin deck surfaces found with OE Vortec heads.