[mrtonegto]

Well I gave the guy through the weekend to call me to negotiate, and so far I've heard nothing from him. I'm tempted to send him a "WWJD" but I won't.

So what would you do if you were in my situation? If you've gone through something like this I'd like to hear from you. If you work in or own a body shop I'd be particularly interested in your view.

Where do you think I should go from here? What should my next steps be? Our contract runs out on Saturday the 15th and it's impossible for the car to be done by then - unless Chip and his gang come to town..............

I've got a plan of action laid out but I'd like to get all the input I can.

[paint guy]

You asked for opinions,so here's mine(caution:you may find it rather upsetting if you keep reading,youv'e been forewarned!)First off,the guy made a major mistake on the quarters,you just can't assume ANYTHING will fit without checking all the angles.but here's my take on it:as the situation is described,no matter what the contract says,this guy is holding alot of cards,and here is why I say that:if you push him to finish it,and he slaps it together,not good.If he misses your deadline,and you sue,it'll probably cost both of you time and money(will be worse if you hire a lawyer).And if he knows(or thinks) your'e going to sue,he might have a tendency to"slap it together"and hope it makes it out of warranty.Also,you could run into a judge(or arbitrator)who know little or nothing about cars and/or bodywork,and that could work against you.Also,you can't find too much fault for a guy trying to support his family,although none of it is your fault.(i'm hoping your'e deadline is arbitrary,that you wanted it by the 15th,not NEEDED it by then).My opinion is to take the pragmatic view,show some empathy for his point of view(even though NONE of this is your fault)ask him what a realistic schedule is to him,(that part is going to be tough to do)and if you can live with it,ask him what you can do to help.takes the pressure off the guy a little bit,and if he sees your'e on his side a bit,you'll probably get a great job,and thats what you really want anyway,isn't it?BTW,I suspect there will be alot of posts telling you,"YOUV"E GOT A CONTRACT,HANG THE GUY OUT TO DRY",and maybe that I'm totally daft,but thats okay.I hope it all works out for you.Good luck.

[gtome]

That sucks that this has happened. I didnt realize before that quarters had been hung by a different owner. Whatever the reason and what should be done to correct it, he should be keeping in connection with you. Thats what would make me the most angry. I guess a personal visit to the bodyshop is in order. Just try to go in there in the right frame of mind, because you will probly have a tough time finding someone else willing to tackle this now that it has been jacked up.

[wytnyt]

hope it works out for you but i have doubts tho
paint guy is right,,its better to work with this guy in the long run
i am finishing one my boss bought that was stripped to a shell.
they had put on quarters THEN realized the vertible rails were rotted out so they gave up.
i refused to begin this job till i had all the panels,bumpers ect..
boss got a bit mad until i mounted the deck lid and there was nearly 2'' of gap where the quarters werent pulled in enough.

biggest concern is how did he weld it up?
like many will do ,,was it ''over welded'' or just in the factory spot welds?

many times we look for a low price but that usually means low quality too
try to be patient,,hopefully he will come through for you

[mrtonegto]

Paint Guy:
I agree with ur basic recommendations, in fact, we went though exactly that in the beginning of April - when 2 other deadlines had passed. HE said that May 15th (5 weeks) was enough time. So I ate it once again.......
I'm not pushing him to get it done at all, I agree the results would be bad. I noticed on Friday he was putting bondo into a brand new panel, that he dented, which was supposed to be pulled out with the stud welder.
The car was given to him on Nov 9th and after he stripped it and accessed what was needed, we agree on late Feb - early March. Every deadline thereafter has been missed and the car wasn't touched for 2 full months (Nov-Dec).
I appreciated your feedback, please believe I am not a a-hole and I have been more than understanding but this is ridiculous. If anything I've been too understanding.

Gtome: I must not have been clear, the lower quarters were replaced improperly once before by a prior owner. They were totally removed and replaced with new lower qtrs and trunk extensions by the current body/paint guy. I did go in on Friday and nothing was done to my car except trivial sanding and temporarily hanging the bumper - the come-along was still affixed to the lower quarters and 2X4's were wedged between the trunk extensions and the frame on one side. He said the problem was resolved but would not remove the come-along to show me so - said he's sanding right now and doesn't want to stop. What WAS done is that the Subaru in the lot was gone - obviously painted and buffed out - as was the crotch rocket that was in the shop for the last month. When pressed he said "I've got a mortgage to pay" and then accused me of calling him a liar (I never used that word - ever) and told to leave his shop. Best defense is a strong offense.......

[mrtonegto]

Wytnyt: Thanks for the feedback, I hope I answered your points in my response to Paint Guy (I was typing it when u responded).

His price was not lower BTW, he was higher AND I paid extra to install the lower quarters (and the parts of course).

[paint guy]

mrtonegto:certainly wasn't implying that your'e being a jerk about this at all.(hope thats not how my post read).Matter of fact,according to your description,I think you are 100% in the right.And if the guy's filling a dent,rather than pulling it,we both know(and so does he)that isn't the right way to do it.Sounds like the guy needs a little encouragement to see your side of it,after you tell him you can understand his side.after all,you probably gave him the work because of his reputation and/or other work of his that you've seen.Good luck.

[mrtonegto]

No PG, never thought that - your post read fine. My first "talk" with him was on Jan 8th after 2 months of just about nothing getting done. I've had several talks with him about recognizing that his bills need to be paid and other small jobs will come first. I even gave him a small advance to get supplies, which ended up being used mostly on another project. He promised me in April that he told all his pending customers that "your car had to get done - I am way past due on it...." Then last week, as I send to Gtome, he finished the Subaru and the crotch rocket that I know of.

Understanding has been both used up and abused.

Thanks again for the input.

[mrtonegto]

I just started putting my notes together on this fiasco and didn't realize how much of his work I have performed on the car.

As a point of reference, he was to have the capability of sand blasting where ever needed, but in fact, he could not. He then expected me to pay for both the cost of the sand blast shop and the round trip on a roll back - which I refused.

Work I performed:
- Removed (2) frozen bolts from front fenders: drilled out and re-tapped.
- Removed rust from roof, filler panel and trunk lid (paid for 8 bottles of Naval Jelly and
wire cup brush) and DA'd all.
- Stripped paint from (3) fenders, cowl vent, (2) window channels (partially), (2) inner
fenders.
- Block sanded both sides of car and (2) front fenders.

Probably 50-60 hours of work here and I'm sure there is more.

I've been a pretty considerate and helpful customer seems to me.................LOL

[paint guy]

If you did all that work(and I'm certainly not doubting you)and it was originally figured into the estimate,he either missed the boat on time it takes to do a quality job,or didn't realize all that needs to be done on a quality resto as compared to collision work.(Big difference).Either way the onus is on him to finish the job IN A QUALITY FASHION,not"slap it together"to get you out of his hair.I hope you can maintain a good enough working relationship with him,(would be tough to do for me at this point,I know)so that he doesn't take it out on your car,and you at least get a quality job out of him.I mean,if the car is late(it is),and you didn't enjoy working with the guy(you don't),at least when the car is done and done right,you'll be able to look at the paint job for what it is,and not be reminded of the jerk that painted it.Back in the early seventies,I had a guy named "Curly"paint my 57 chevy.The quote was for $1000(a lot of money to me back then).He was late(just like your situation)and when the car was done,I was blind-sided with a 20% cost over-run($1200).Never called about it,just kind of ruined what was supposed to be an exciting day for me.But the paint job was nice,held up well,and after a couple of years,I didn't really care too much about the extra $200,but was still happy with the paint job.I hope,at this point,things work out well enough so that at least you are able to enjoy the paint job and can put all the other stuff on the back burner.good luck.

[wytnyt]

one tactic that worked for me back in '76 when i was getting screwed on a paint job
was to polity tell the bodyman that your ''family lawyer '' advised you to ask if there was
going to a way to work this out. before legal action was pursued
i also told him at this point i didnt give a damn either way and that the ball was in his court.
he went so far as get my car done right and gave it back with my owing him $100.
.

[mrtonegto]

You guys would think I'm making this stuff up........... it's unbelievable!
Thankfully today my wife had the day off and I asked her to come with me as a witness - I'll explain:
"In our last episode you may recall" that I sent him a text msg to urge him to meet with me over the weekend and negotiate a settlement. I heard nothing. Then surprisingly I get a call at exactly 9AM and he says:
- gee, I'm sorry - had the phone turned off: Mother's Day and all
- You know I REALLY want to work this out..........
- I really like you, you're a great guy and I want us to be friends
- I'd like you to let me finish the car, have all the body work done and finally blocked and ready for paint - by the 15th
- I'll give you the gallon of paint that's left and you can have someone else paint the car.
- Come over this afternoon and let's work it out, I like you, you're a great guy.

Now is that not the sweetest freakin' thing you've ever heard??? It's an absolute epiphany - yesterday was surely Sunday and something truly spectacular has reached his soul - or not (read on............).

So I'm in the middle of something at work, I can't get a grasp on all that at the moment, so I tell him just that and that I'll get back to him and see him this afternoon.

I then find the time to logically give consideration and go past the hype and the total BS (we are NOT dealing with a street smart person here folks). So I boil the BS down and this is what I need to agree:
- must be done to my satisfaction - will be verified
- fix the bent sail panel brace he bent
- paint POR15 inside the door panels as orig. stated
- no bondo is fender repair patch and lower qtr he dented - use stud gun
- car must be in FINAL blocking and truly ready for paint
- lower qtrs must have not bondo, no dents damages, etc
- fenders, hood, trunk must be hung with acceptable clearances
- probably some others I'm missing right now.........

I text him the list of proposed conditions and ask him to respond so we can make headway that afternoon. No response. Several hours later I resend. No response.

So I leave work, pickup my wife and drive over to his shop (hang on guys - your gonna love this!).

As we pull up, I see that the overhead door to the shop is closed.........what? Oh, but wait.... there's his car and his wife's car next door at his buddies house.......I roll 40 feet past them and stop next to his shop.......they're out in the driveway talking...... I check my phone messages and see there's one from him......its from 10 min. ago: "...can't meet, got to go to ...yadda yadda....)............ WHAT? I'm here now though..... he gets in his car, his wife gets in hers and they back down the parallel driveway as I am driving out of his drive..........he does not look over - they enter the road ahead of me.....I'm 40 feet behind them.....WTH!!!! While I'm driving I text him "UNREAL!!"........they continue on their way.........and I continue on to the Magistrate's office........what a POS!!!

[Jerry H.]

I really feel for you. This situation sucks. But I've got one question on your deal today. Why didn't you actually 'call' him when you were behind him at his shop today instead of just 'texting' him? Sorry, but I don't get this texting crap. I personally don't send texts or accept them. If I don't have time to actually talk to someone or they can't talk to me, then screw 'em!

[mrtonegto]

I guess I could have called him and said "Golly guy didnt u see me pull in?" or "Wow, this is funny u didnt see me, I'm right behind you, please stop" or "Please! Paint my car...I'll do whatever..."
Maybe u had to be there........maybe I didnt describe it properly/clearly......it was NOT the time u want to talk to some SOB who's trying to avoid you.
Recognize that texting is verifiable - u sent it, maybe he didnt open it - but the situation happened and u can verify the text. I've helped with small claims cases with my business against non-paying customers with phone records before.
Jerry he was never going to pickup my inbound call - there is NO doubt! C'mon man.....

[valkyrie9901]

I don't think I would be downgrading the man and name calling while I am trying to sort problems out with him.He still has the car and you want him to step up and get things done or corrected for you but doing what you are doing is going to drive a wedge between all negotiations.If the shop is his only income he needs to pay the bills but I can understand that you want your car back also to do assy work and interior work.You can refuse to pay if it comes to that but he can lien the car til you pay for the work already done.If you do get the car half finished,I doubt you will get a bodyshop that will warranty the paint or work done unless they start from scratch.Plus most shops are connected by trade and word gets out that you as a customer did not want to resolve any issues without malice,no one will touch the car in the area.Good luck,but don't nit pick his work or shop and you will get farther............JB.

[mrtonegto]

"...you want him to STEP UP and GET THINGS DONE...for Y-O-U...."

huh?

[mrtonegto]

Here's a rant.......so pass this post up if u dont want to hear it.

One of the most basic problems IMO with this fiasco is we have a guy who can't cover his bills. So what does he do? Well instead of busting his azz and coming in early and staying late - like so many of us with ambition have done in our careers - he decides to to pass his misery on to his customers (there's a gal in there with a '63 Impala who's going through the same fiasco). This is a person with no moral character and worse yet - a hippocrite who professes to be religious: says his prayers before lunch; listens and sings aloud to Christian radio and; teaches children at Sunday school each week.

You don't pass ur problems onto your customers. You don't upset other people's lives and destroy the fun they get out of their hobby - the car they've put so much $ and themselves into.

When you get a customer who puts in hours and hours of work at YOUR shop (after putting in 8-9 hours at his own job), doing YOUR work, you ought to be grateful. You ought to give thanks. You ought to give respect. When a customer lets u slide a month, and another because he says he understands you need to pay ur bills/mortgage - you ought to bust your azz and get the job done!!

Now.........well now you need to "Come to J...."

[valkyrie9901]

Sounds like you need to settle up with what he has already done and move on and do it yourself or hire another shop.........good luck with your project....JB.

[GTOWoody]

I am glad we have a site like this to vent. I say vent here and call him any name you would like! I work as an IT consultant and I know that my customers happiness is key to putting food on the table. If I have to work over time to fix my mistake or even others, I get it done. Sounds like this guy gave you a quote on time and not on how long it would take him to get that time. IE. The job will take 100 hours with me working 10 hours a week with hours on other projects. I am really hoping to get all of the body work done myself and see if I can rent booth time to paint myself as well.

Maybe you can work out a deal where he lets you continue to use his shop for your car, but you will do the work maybe with his supervision/expertise. This way you get a quality job and you know it is getting done. The only down side is your time and if you wanted for this summer. Oh, and ask for money back since he didn't put in the hours. Just a thought.

[mrtonegto]

Thanks GTOWoody, IMO the more you can do for yourself the better - u get the satisfaction of doing it and you learn in the process. I don't have the shop I had in the past or I would definitely have done it myself and I'm not saying that because of the current situation.

You know a snake is a snake - it doesn't change, you need to act/proceed accordingly.

When I got out of school I started my first "major" job as a scheduler in a large NY grocery chain. The VP of Produce was a typical NYer, a type-A like me. But one thing I'll never forget and always respected him for was when took me to the side on my first day and said (I'm paraphrasing) "I'll tell you right now, I don't take any responsibility for failures around here. If a load doesn't get here in time for a sale, I'm going to blame you every time. Be forewarned!"
He wasn't my boss but most of my work was for their department.
He told me straight up with no BS. And I proceeded accordingly and made absolutely sure I was documenting everything and doing the job the best way I could.
I always respected him for that - HE was not a hypocrite.