[Safari Larry]

Originally Posted by poison heart

What if I just drill out the holes that should be there? Is this block the same as a '62 389? Are '62 heads better? Are 60 blocks better? Performance wise

There is more to it than drilling the holes in front of the block. You would also need to drill holes in the deck, enlarge holes, and recenter holes. I wouldn't do it -- and didn't do it after careful consideration. I think it could be done.

The 60 block is not the same as '62 389. The interface to the rear of the block was changed in '61 so bell housings will not interchange between 60 and later blocks. Blocks were made a little lighter beginning in '61. If you are building a all out performance engine, the 59/60 block may be better (stronger) than the later block. I believe Steve Barcak uses a 59 block in his dragster.

Performance wise I can't see where there would be any difference between 389 blocks. Later heads will improve performance but I don't know much about that. Valves were made larger and flow characteristics improved over the years as technology evolved. If you want to learn more, there are a couple of good books (1) "Pontiac Musclecar Performance 1955-1979" by Pete McCarthy and (2) "How to Build Max-Performance Pontiac V-8s" by Jim Hand.

If you want to discuss that further, I suggest starting a new thread with an appropriate subject. I think we've gotten a bit off the subject with this thread.

[poison heart]

Yep, this one got way hi jacked. Sorry guys. Thanks for your help Larry

[uneasyrider]

No problem guys!

I'm just setting here reading all this for my future use. I've gotten what I need so please keep going.

Thanks for the input,

[Safari Larry]

OK Uneasyrider, thanks for the go ahead, we'll beat it a bit more. I think we are almost done with identifying Poison's block (1960 389ci). There are a couple of things unresolved.

The mystery is the date code on his block. Poison is taking photos for us to look at.

Poison, I'm wondering about the 3537 code you found on the block. Can you get a photo of that code?

I think I gave this to you before but at http://www.pontiacsafari.com/L1Garag...ampedCodes.jpg is a photo of a 1960 block and it shows the numbers normally stamped on the block. The upper numbers are the engine number and application code. The lower numbers is the serial number (VIN) of the car the engine was originally installed in. Is the 3537 code located where the lower numbers are in that photo?

[poison heart]

Here are the pics I just took. My camera is old and crappy but I think you'll get the idea. From the picture of the date code on the heads iot looks like its an 8 or a 9 but in person you can tell it's a 9. The date code is still hard to read but I guess it must be a 9 even though it looks like an 8. I also found some more to the 3537#


Block date code


Head date code


Front of the block


VIN which is 160A3537


The engine number

[Safari Larry]

Aha! You uncovered the serial number of the Pontiac that the block was originally installed in. I think the initial letters are "160A".

1 = Catalina
60 = 1960 model year
A = assembled in Arlilngton, TX.
3437 = production number + 1000, it was an early production car, number 2437 Catalina built at the Arlington plant in the 1960 model year.

Low car serial number agrees with early production block (assuming the cast date is in 59)

One more thing you might look for Poison is a code just below the motor number that could be hidden. If you go back and look at my link to the front of the 60 block, you'll see a two character code "S1" under the motor number (upper number). That code tells the specific application of the engine block. The code could be a single character. The code would be interesting but for you it really doesn't matter much (unless we discover you have a 425A block with 4-bolt main, highly unlikely).

Poison, you need a camera with a close up capability.

[poison heart]

I had a better camera but it won't turn on anymore. This is my first digital camera from about 2001. haha it's terrible.

I'm glad to hear that it's a 1960 389. Very good news!

The number below the engine code is A1. What does that mean?

[poison heart]

Wait, according to wallace racing it's a automatic with 1 4 barrel 283 horse with a 10.25:1 compression ratio. Not bad.

Since all '59 heads have the same casting number, does the compression come from the pistons? What about the '62 motors?

The reason I ask is because the '62 Cat I just bought is an 8.6:1 motor. Maybe the 60 block with 59 heads will be a better set up than the 62 motor with 62 heads.

[poison heart]

http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...27#post3456427

I started a new thread on this topic. Well similar topic

[Safari Larry]

You got it figured out. See also www.pontiacsafari.com/MPC/Pages/page_0061.jpg for all the 1960 codes directly from the Pontiac Master Parts Catalog.

I think we can declare this mystery solved! Poison, keep an eye out for a 1960 front cover if that is a usable block.

Compression comes from both heads & pistons. The X stamped on heads means they were milled from the standard heads to produce a slightly higher compression (10.75 vs 10.25). You don't have the X on your heads so they are heads used on the "standard" engines (that's good, you don't want high compression for a street car). Low compression engines will have dished pistons. I don't know about '62 motors but I suspect they were the similar.

[poison heart]

That chart shows that A1 is a 2 barrel high compression motor, not a 4 barrel like Wallace said. I assume the link you provided is correct?

You mention dished pistons on the low compression motors. My '59 389 in my star chief had completely flat pistons. I did find out that it is an original tri power motor.

[Safari Larry]

Originally Posted by poison heart

That chart shows that A1 is a 2 barrel high compression motor, not a 4 barrel like Wallace said. I assume the link you provided is correct?

You mention dished pistons on the low compression motors. My '59 389 in my star chief had completely flat pistons. I did find out that it is an original tri power motor.

I would assume that the link I provided is correct since it is in the 1960 Pontiac Master Parts Catalog. The difference in the 10.25 and 10.75 compression is in the heads, they both use the same flat pistons. The lower compression engines use dished pistons. Both tri-power engines (318 hp and 348 hp I believe) had 10.75 compression.

[johnta1]

I re-checked that A1 code, I had the correct 2bbl number on there, but must have typed the '4' on the BBL section.

A1 is a 2 bbl engine as posted in that link.

I corrected mine.

[poison heart]

Thanks John and Larry for yall's help! I see what you mean by the compression vs pistons.

Now I just need to figure out which set up will work best