[Formulabruce]

The Kioti I have seen use a Daedong engine.
ABOUT the size of the brake pedal ( you want a split one )
When you drive a HST above Garden tractor size if you stay in low gear or on the 3 speed ones, in medium gear,
when you let off the forward pedal the tractor slows down in a HURRY. You barely use your brakes unless on a slope.
Some tractors, like some 33+ hp John Deere's, you can adjust that. It is called "rollout". How far tractor will free roll after you let of the Pedal.
Aside from back dragging and setting the parking brake I barely use the brakes on a HST compact utility Tractor.

[Jay S]

IRC, RK and Branson are the same tractor on different marketing platforms, made by TYM.

But, it is hard to keep up with them all. I could be wrong.

[ponyakr]

How 'bout an LS brand ?

https://lstractorusa.com/tractor/mt225he-24-6hp/

https://www.tractorhouse.com/listing...-tractors/1111

This salesman said this is they're best selling model.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MF_LrB8ZRI4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovOo_vDvmUs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGH34EqeoUw

Looks like the New Holland, with 2 brake pedals & EPTO. There's a big dealer less than 100 miles from me, that has at least 2 locations. I'm only 150 miles from the really big dealer in MS, that's on a couple of those videos.

https://www.murphybrotherstrading.com/default.htm

[Jay S]

I will watch some of those videos when I get a chance, but it likely looks like the New Holland because that is who builds the New Holland. Should be very similar to the New Holland you looked mentioned earlier. Sometimes they use different engines and small change’s to the controls, other times the only thing different is the decals. Looks like it is Ford blue just like the New Holland. I have heard that some LS models in the past had New Holland operators manuals.

I didn’t realize exactly what was described about the brake pedals. I thought it had a inching pedal on the far left and the left brake next to it. Was hard to see on my small screen. I see now that both brakes are on the left side, not one on each. With the forward/reverse pedals on the right side. That looks ok. I would rather have that one brake for both back wheels, I assume the brakes can be locked together so they can both be applied at the same time if wanted.

I haven’t ran a Kioti for a couple years, I recall the foot pedals now and the single brake. Seems like the ones I ran may have had a differential lock and didn’t have a right and left brake.

[Jay S]

Both the 25 Hp LS and New Holland have Yanmar engines.

[ponyakr]

"...I assume the brakes can be locked together so they can both be applied at the same time..."

Yeah, both blue tractors have 2 brake pedals that can be locked together. Both Blue tractors look very similar. So, I assume they ARE made by the same company. May even be made in the same building.

From what little I've gathered, so far, the LS is cheaper than the comparable NH. But, the quality seems to be about the same.

"...LS has recently signed a contract with New Holland to build tractors for them. “If there was a problem with parts, I doubt that New Holland would have gone into business with LS.”

“The LS tractors are some of the best-priced in the industry, and the craftsmanship and quality of the product will stand up to the very best...”

I think I could count on either of the LS dealers I mentioned, to give good service, if needed.

But I haven't found any dealers in my area that have any of the models I'm considering, in stock. And the sales people I've talked to don't really know when they might get any in, in the near future.

Looks like the tractor mfg/sales chain has been totally stalled out, somewhere along the line.

From what I've seen, I don't really see how some dealers are staying in business. They have obviously had to lay off most of their sales people, since they have nothing to sell. I assume some sales people have tried to find work in other fields, unless they can draw unemployment.

https://www.agriculture.com/machiner...xpect-for-2022

https://www.agri-pulse.com/articles/...y-chain-issues

https://news.yahoo.com/supply-chain-...ZT8XFM7dUqWgt6

https://www.teamtractor.com/blog/tra...-9-2021--36457

https://www.teamtractor.com/blog/far...ver-end--40560

[Jay S]

The shortage of new has dramatically increase the value of nice used equipment. Should work to your favor if you can find tractor to replace and upgrade the old one with a new or newer tractor. Some used tractors are currently selling for much more money than they cost new.

[ponyakr]

Originally Posted by Jay S

The shortage of new has dramatically increase the value of nice used equipment. Should work to your favor if you can find tractor to replace and upgrade the old one with a new or newer tractor. Some used tractors are currently selling for much more money than they cost new.

Yeah, because of this situation, I'm asking aprox what I gave for it. But, that's still about $10k less than the new one will cost. So, we'll have to get pretty close to the asking price, in order to be able to buy a new one.

Right now, I'd just like to find one like we want, to test drive. This is a really strange period of time. Don't know if it will ever get back to what we called "normal", or not.

[ponyakr]

OK, after LOTS of searching & video watching, I'm now lookin at 3 choices.

(1) LS MT225HE

This one appears to be almost exactly the same as the NH WM 25. Side-by-side HST pedals. EPTO. Side-by-side brake pedals, on the left side.

The main reason it's now #1 on my list is because it's supposedly cheaper than the NH. There are also 2 big dealers @ aprox 100 miles & 150 miles from me.

(2) New Holland Workmaster 25

Same as LS. 2 reasons why I might consider it, instead of the LS: (A) There is a big dealer about 50 miles from me. (B) The resale value(in my area) MAY be better than the LS. I'm not sure of that. But, I've seen that NH name for a long time. Never even heard of the LS brand until recent years. So, I assume most others in this area have had the same experience.

(3) Branson 2515H

Only thing about this one that is less desirable than those blue tractors is that it only has a single brake pedal. BUT, since I've always kept the 2 brake pedals on my Kioti latched together, I suppose the single brake pedal should not be a deciding factor for me.

One thing that would really tip the scales toward this one, for me, would be if my local dealer could actually get one. The dealership is only 10-12 miles from me. The owner is a real nice guy, who I was in the National Guard with.

And, as I posted, they're supposed to keep at least 5 Branson tractors in stock, in order to keep dealership status. This is one of the models they usually stock. But, their order from last August has not come in yet, & they have no idea when they might get one.

I suppose the next closest dealer is in Shreveport, about 80 miles from me.

Anyhow, that's where it stands right now. 3 choices, but none available to check out.

NOTE: This may sound totally ridiculous to most of you guys. But, for some of you retired guys, who have plenty of free time, and wouldn't mind, I'd like to ask you to check the dealers in your area & see if they have any of these models in stock. And, if they do, I'd like for you to go check 'em out & let me know your thoughts about 'em.

One thing I need to know is how roomy the work station is, with the seat all the way back. If there isn't much leg room, it can be difficult for me to get my foot up on the brake pedal quickly. So, unless there is room to move the seat back some, short leg room might eliminate a tractor, for me.

Also, one guy said the NH loader was real "twitchy". So, I'd like to know how the loader movement feels. The loader operation feels real smooth on my Kioti. But, it's the only loader I've ever had. So, I don't know exactly what "twitchy" would feel like.

[ponyakr]

Wow !

Just made some phone calls. Shocked at what I found out.

About a hundred miles from me is an LS tractor assembly facility !

Talked to a guy who said they have the parts right now to build about 700 tractors.

They have one of the MT225HE models in stock, at one of their retail stores, and, they can have another one built in a week or less. After everything I've seen online, the past several days, this was extremely unexpected news.

The price is just a few hundred over $20k, plus 9.2% tax. That includes the loader & ind tires. AND, he said they would deliver it to us for around $150-$200.

So, that means I can sell my Kioti for about $1000 less than I thought.

I also called the Murphy Bros LS dealership, in MS. Their price, without tax was a few bucks under $20k, plus tax. They have several of these in stock. BUT, they will absolutely not deliver. So, I'd have to pay somebody to haul it.

Wish I could find a closer LS dealer. Since the assembly plant is so close by & has a quick turn-around time right now, I assume that any LS dealer in this area could get one built within a week or 2. I'll do some more checking.

Also found one of the Branson 2515H models in stock, about 80 miles from us.

[Formulabruce]

You'll need money to get the rear tires loaded.

[ponyakr]

Originally Posted by Formulabruce

You'll need money to get the rear tires loaded.

Don't want anything but air in the rear tires.

The air got too low in my Kioti tires & lost their seal, went flat. I fooled around not checkin 'em as often as I should have & let it happen twice, once on each side.

But, since I didn't have any liquid in 'em, all I had to do was take 'em back to the tire place & get 'em sealed & aired back up. Would have had a big mess, if they'd had liquid in 'em.

I leave the 5' bush hog on it all the time. It provides plenty of weight to balance the front end loader bucket, when it's full of dirt or gravel.

Have been doing this for over 12 years now, with over 600 hours on the tractor. Never a problem without extra weight in the tires.

[ponyakr]

Well, I got some more LS tractor info this afternoon.

Made some more calls & discovered that there is an LS dealer about 65 miles from us.

So, I called to see if he had the model I've mentioned.

Said he had one, but it had a belly mower on it. Said he'd either match my best price & give me the mower, or remove the mower & knock off $900.

Well, I told him I needed the mower off, for ground clearance. But, I drove on down there to check it out.

As I approached the dealership I could see maybe 20 or more Mahindra tractors side-by-side. All the way down at the end of that line was one blue tractor.

BUT, it was a subcompact. I could see that it had a belly mower on it. I realized immediately what had happened. The guy I'd talked to, who was the owner, thought I wanted an MT225s tractor.

What I'd told him was that I wanted an MT225 with the hyro trans & elec PTO. I added that it was the equivalent of the NH WH 25. But, all that registered with him was the MT225 & the hydro trans part.

Anyhow, since I'd told him I was coming, I went on in to talk to him.

He's owned the place since 1997. I probably spent at least an hour with him. He gave me a tractor education I was not expecting. He was a real nice, down to earth guy, not your typical salesman, at all.

He said that if he could get one of tractors I wanted, he'd match my best price. Plus, his tax was a little lower where he is located. Plus, he'd deliver it for $100.

Well, all that sounded great. But, there was a problem. Said the reason he had only one LS on the lot was because he'd had several ordered for months that had not come in.

Well, after hearing what I'd heard earlier about only a week turn-around time, I was surprised. When I told him what that guy had told me, I could tell it made him real mad. But, he kept his cool, a LOT better than I could have.

He immediately called a guy he referred to as his LS company rep, & told him what the guy had told me, & ask him why they could get one in a week & he hadn't got any after months.

The rep acted like he knew all about it & there was absolutely nothing he could do about it. Said that because those 2 dealers are factory outlet dealers, they had priority. My dealer was NOT happy about that. He explained to the rep that it was just not fair to other dealers. The rep was NO help.

Well, after the dealer & I talked for a while longer, he came up with a plan to try. Said that if I'd sign some papers showing that I was going to buy a tractor, when it came in, they MIGHT go ahead & build & ship him one.

I assume he was thinking that maybe they'd be more likely to ship one, IF they knew it would be sold immediately, rather than just put into a dealers inventory. Makes sense to me.

He said that although I signed the papers I was under no obligation to buy. Said that if he got one & I didn't buy it, he'd have no problem at all selling it. I figure he's telling the truth. Said he sold over 200 Zero turn mowers & over 100 tractors last year. Looked to have at least 50+ zero turns in stock now.

He said he don't know if his LS plan would work or not, but it's worth a try anyhow.

Then, before he sent the order, he turned to me & asked how much we had to get for the Kioti. I told him, then said that with the better deal he'd quoted, we could actually take less.

So, to my great surprise, he said that if they'd ship him the tractor, he'd take the Kioti & $10k for the total price of the new tractor.

Hey, that's all we were hoping for is to sell the Kioti for enuff to add to $10k, & buy a new tractor. That deal will make it much easier. We won't have to try & sell the Kioti. The dealer will have to sell the Kioti, to make his profit on the deal. But, he obviously knows the business, well.

Remains to be seen whether he can actually get one any time soon, or not. Hey, if it comes by Spring, that would be OK. There's no reason for us to be in a big hurry.

[ponyakr]

If you live in certain locations, you can get a real good deal on an LS MT225HE tractor, especially if you can find a dealer with a left over 2021 model.

Here's a '21 for $17,250. At this price, you could pay a reasonable amount for shipping & still save a couple of thousand. Don't know about local dealer support, if you buy from a distant dealer. Don't know if LS requires dealers to do warranty work on tractors that were not bought there, or not. If so, the dealer could still make it not worth the hassle, if they wanted to be ugly about it.

https://www.treetrader.com/listing/f...40-hp-tractors

https://www.rcotractor.com/PrintInve...ood-id-8513025


Here's a '22 for $19,400.

https://www.treetrader.com/listing/f...40-hp-tractors

But, I'm nowhere near those locations.

Here's a video I just watched. It's not about the MT225HE model. It's a slightly bigger model, but the guy compares it to big name brand similar models.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23CRnYnalQg

Was thinkin that we only gave around $13k for our Kioti, in '09. If this deal goes thru, we'll get almost that much for it on the trade. So, we got to use it, almost for free. Well, that's one way to look at it. Actually, it's more like: Inflation has struck !

[GT182]

Take a look at Kubota. The make their own diesel engines. I have a 4 wheel steer G2000, bought in 1992, that's till runs like a top today.... but it has the gas engine they used to make. Not the commercial crap they use today.

Their diesel engines are the best I've seen of any out there. Personally, I'd never buy a newer tractor from 2012 of any brand because of DEF.

Read this...
https://eastmanind.com/farm-equipmen...s-use-def.html

[ponyakr]

Well ya'll, I don't know whether to believe this, or not.

I just got off the phone with a salesman. He has a 2022 LS MT225HE tractor, with loader, in stock. Price he gave me was $17,500 plus tax.

AND, they have FREE shipping to the lower 48. This sounds too good to be true. But, when asked, he said they can do it because of high volume.

Well, IF this info is correct, that means several dealers have been lying to me. I've heard this several times. They say that because the profit margin is so low on the $20k tractors, they can't even afford to deliver for free. Hey, somebody's lying to me.

If this dealer can sell for $2500 less, AND offer FREE shipping, for long distances, surely the local dealers could load a tractor onto their trailer & deliver it 50-100 miles, without charging another $100-$200 delivery fee. I suppose they are all just wanting to make all the profit they possibly can off each & every sale.

IF that $17.5K with free delivery price is correct, that means that we could take less for our Kioti & still have enuff left to buy the new LS. According to the auction prices, our Kioti is worth at least $10k, @ auction.

https://www.tractorhouse.com/listing...-tractors/1111

SO much conflicting info. What is the truth & what is my best deal ?

Might just sit tight for a while & see what happens. Things may loosen up a bit, later on in the year, & most all the dealers will have some tractors to sell. OR, maybe not.

https://www.agriculture.com/machiner...xpect-for-2022

Don't seem to be any shortage of Mahindra tractors. But I looked at those yesterday. Bad HST & brake pedal arrangement. Will not consider that brand. Check out the pic of the 1626 Mahindra pedals. HST uses the "rocker" pedal design, which requires heel operation of reverse. And, as if that's not bad enuff, look at the location of the brake pedals. You'd have to mash the pedal on the right, in order for your heel to miss the forward pedal. And that's AFTER you pick your foot up off the forward pedal. Ridiculous arrangement, IMO. Would NOT buy.

[ponyakr]

"...Personally, I'd never buy a newer tractor from 2012 of any brand because of DEF..."

The compact tractor we intend to buy falls below DEF. Less than 25hp. It's all we need.

"...look at Kubota..."

I've looked. They use the "rocker" style HST pedals, rather than side-by-side pedals. Will not consider that style pedals.

[Jack P.]

Don't forget to consider tires. There are 4 types. I went with the new R-14 hybrid.
Seems to work well. They were an extra $200.

[ponyakr]

Originally Posted by Jack P.

Don't forget to consider tires. There are 4 types. I went with the new R-14 hybrid.
Seems to work well. They were an extra $200.

Yeah, I've seen some of those on a few tractor pics. I really like the R4 ind tires. have no complaints about them.

https://www.titan-intl.com/r14t

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOXuH9YMAN8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dmsD70GnOg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtvBPoUbcOA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjHfL8AJmxY

Our tractor is VERY seldom ever on hard surface roads. I think the wide R4 ind tires are just what we need.

[ID67goat]

The pricing sounds like what I saw when I was looking. Locally we used to have a Branson dealer, but Branson started undercutting the dealers and selling direct to the public....so the owner had enough of that and now no more Branson dealer.

I ended up just going with Kubota and have been really happy with it. Good luck with your purchase!