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Old 07-22-2020, 03:53 PM
Adecco Adecco is offline
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Default 67 GTO 400 4 speed tall block, value

Looking to get a ballpark figure on a 67 GTO tall block, was is a 4speed, non ac, non ps car. It has no intake but has everything else, pullies, exhaust manifolds, distributor, the guy is pulling a40k mile motor out to do a LS1 swap.. I

Thanks Tom

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Old 07-22-2020, 04:03 PM
Adecco Adecco is offline
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Block Stamped XS making it a 400 RA or HO

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Old 07-22-2020, 09:10 PM
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good luck ! XS can be a 69 350 also ..........

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Old 07-22-2020, 09:17 PM
PurelyGTO68 PurelyGTO68 is offline
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Wow. Is the engine original to the car? If so, buy the whole car and let him do an LS swap on something else. There should be plenty of nice 67 GTOs out there that need an engine.

Shame to modify a car like that.. .
XS is Ram Air.

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Old 07-23-2020, 12:07 AM
Baron Von Zeppelin Baron Von Zeppelin is offline
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Yeh
you and he BOTH should double check the code and casting dates on that "XS"

67 RamAir GTO is a Rarity
He wouldn't want to break that up if he has any amount of brain left at all.

Would also be a 4bolt main block
and have the Big Exhaust manifolds

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Old 07-23-2020, 03:16 PM
Adecco Adecco is offline
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It is a XS block, and no he wont sell the car...believe me I asked and asked...picking it up this weekend and will post more details next week

  #7  
Old 07-24-2020, 03:06 PM
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geeteeohguy geeteeohguy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adecco View Post
It is a XS block, and no he wont sell the car...believe me I asked and asked...picking it up this weekend and will post more details next week
If the XS is original to the car: car with XS engine intact=80-100k.
Car with XS missing and LS swapped= 20-40k.

The owner of the car is an idiot and a fool.

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Old 07-25-2020, 12:43 AM
pont3 pont3 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geeteeohguy View Post
If the XS is original to the car: car with XS engine intact=80-100k.
Car with XS missing and LS swapped= 20-40k.

The owner of the car is an idiot and a fool.
Why do you have to call the guy " an idiot and a fool"? He obviously likes the style of the car and wants it to drive like a modern car. It's HIS car! Like me, he is probably not into these cars for their potential values, he AND I, simply like the style of the cars. Like him, I'm done wasting my money and time trying to make a forty-year-old Pontiac engine perform like more modern LS engines. I mean, face it. Every part one can get for a Pontiac engine is stratospherically expensive or it is chinese junk. Aftermarket parts aren't reliable for daily driven cars and don't stand the test of time like the factory parts.

He may even have plans to preserve the original parts and return the car to original if/when he decides to sell it.

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Old 07-25-2020, 09:26 AM
Chief of the 60's Chief of the 60's is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pont3 View Post
Why do you have to call the guy " an idiot and a fool"? He obviously likes the style of the car and wants it to drive like a modern car. It's HIS car! Like me, he is probably not into these cars for their potential values, he AND I, simply like the style of the cars. Like him, I'm done wasting my money and time trying to make a forty-year-old Pontiac engine perform like more modern LS engines. I mean, face it. Every part one can get for a Pontiac engine is stratospherically expensive or it is chinese junk. Aftermarket parts aren't reliable for daily driven cars and don't stand the test of time like the factory parts.

He may even have plans to preserve the original parts and return the car to original if/when he decides to sell it.
Because he "thinks" the car is worth 100 grand with the engine. Asinine and obviously watches too much TV.

  #10  
Old 07-25-2020, 10:30 AM
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Sirrotica Sirrotica is offline
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It's a matter of common sense, that is getting more rare everyday.

Yes it is his car to do with what he wants to do. Is the move to separate a collectible classic rare car from the OEM engine smart? Probably not.

Is letting a collectible anything sit and decay until it has no value to anyone smart? Probably not, but it happens all the time.

"I'm gonna fix that car as soon as I get to it, and no, it's not for sale"......

In reality, the car is just going to sit and decay, and when he dies, the family will call a junkman, and it will get scrapped for the value of the weight of the metal at the time.............

So I guess in the grand scheme of things, putting any engine in the car, and driving it is the lesser of all the evils. It's not an ideal conclusion for the situation, but it's not the worst case scenario of the car ending up as a chinese made widget if it's scrapped.


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  #11  
Old 07-29-2020, 11:33 AM
2+2=421 2+2=421 is offline
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Exactly..what makes a 67 a ram air other than a factory hood cutout. They all had 670 heads or were they different heads? same pistons ,compression etc. was the cam different?..I thought xp was ram air block, is it both xs or xp?

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Old 07-25-2020, 10:15 AM
Baron Von Zeppelin Baron Von Zeppelin is offline
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Quote:
He may even have plans to preserve the original parts and return the car to original if/when he decides to sell it.
Selling the original engine , doesn't sound like a preserving measure at all.
And I'm not throwing Pont3 into the grease about this,
just bringing the light into the overall picture.

67 RamAir cars are a highly desired commodity to upper echelon collectors.
They sold 596 RamAir 4 Speeds, and 156 Automatics (751 Total)
Tom Stutzman sold a frame-off restored 4 Speed Hardtop for $160,000 in 2016

Exact same car with an LS swap would be worth ... idunno, maybe 50-60k ?
I'm not into these cars for the money, but economics become a fundamental factor if you're dealing with a 6 figure car.

You might see 2 or 3 of these sell publicly every 10 Years, or so.
Very low survival / identified ratio
Hard to gauge their market value, and very hard to find at all.

If the XS engine in question is the original engine to the 67 GTO in question,
then i agree the owner is an idiot and a fool.
By 2020, i have to think he would be aware of that.

The engine probably isn't original to the car
And the car probably isn't an original RamAir car.
That's the only way it makes any kind of sense at all.


This would be akin to removing the original engine from a 73 SuperDuty Trans Am and selling the engine, to install an LS
A guy can do it, for sure
It's his car
but .... 99.99% would consider him a TOTAL Idiot

Selling a RamAir Engine that was upfitted after the fact into a garden variety GTO,
i doubt anyone would care at all. Or care about the LS conversion.
Other than knowing a PY member got the XS engine, which is Cool

  #13  
Old 07-23-2020, 03:18 PM
Adecco Adecco is offline
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I may be selling it, to finish my 71GTO or do some horse trading...

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Old 07-23-2020, 05:24 PM
Chief of the 60's Chief of the 60's is offline
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What on Earth is a "tall block"?

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Old 07-23-2020, 08:12 PM
Baron Von Zeppelin Baron Von Zeppelin is offline
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tall block // long block
Long is the correct term

Maybe the 67 XS isnt original to that car.
Either way - if he wants to sell it - might as well buy it before someone else does.

Chevy had some tall block/tall deck 427 truck engines

  #16  
Old 07-23-2020, 10:06 PM
Chief of the 60's Chief of the 60's is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 400 4spd. View Post
With heads, valve train and possibly intake, as opposed to a short block being only the block with rotating assembly.
These v v v are correct.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron Von Zeppelin View Post
Long is the correct term

Chevy had some tall block/tall deck 427 truck engines
Now, about those "big block Pontiac" engines....

  #17  
Old 07-23-2020, 09:13 PM
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400 4spd. 400 4spd. is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chief of the 60's View Post
What on Earth is a "tall block"?



With heads, valve train and possibly intake, as opposed to a short block being only the block with rotating assembly.

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  #18  
Old 07-29-2020, 12:57 PM
John V. John V. is offline
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The topic title threw me off. I thought maybe there was something about this particular block that was unique and something that I just never learned about. Never stopped to think that "tall block" was actually a "long block".

That being the case, if the GTO is an original Ram Air build and if this engine was original to it, seems goofy to make both significantly less valuable by doing the proposed engine swap. So gotta believe it is NOT a Ram Air build and the engine came out of a long ago scrapped GTO.

The OP wanted to know the value of the engine. I have no idea. I assume it is in need of rebuilding, so whatever someone buys it for, they'd have to add the significant added cost to rebuild it. I have no use for it so has zero value to me.

Some guys place significant value on the engine manifest code stamped on the block, I've generally not been one of those guys. Since the '67 was not stamped with a partial VIN, "matching" nos. when it comes to the block is predicated on the engine manifest code and the block cast date with a hobby deduced expectation for the expected "matching" date range based on the Time Built code or actual production date where known.

Such a guy restoring a '67 Ram Air GTO might pay top dollar for a particular block if it could be perceived as "matching" his build. But that guy would be few and far between since there are so few such GTOs existing. Plus, depending on the cast date, it might still not be a good "match" to many such GTOs.

I think the value generally would depend on a few other important details.

Hopefully I won't get this wrong. I am no expert on the '67 XS or any other Ram Air engine but I have some knowledge about them.

Years ago, it was believed by most "experts" that all '67 400s used the same 2 bolt main 9786133 block casting.

More recently, it was discovered that a new block casting was introduced for the very late production '67 Ram Air engines.

These engines were the first to get the 4 bolt mains. The block casting used was the 9792510. Very few '67 Ram Air engines actually used this block, I believe Pontiac began casting it in late April, '67.

This block casting was likely designed in lockstep and apparently a portent of the '68 Ram Air block casting 9792506 just judging by the similarity in p/n. I'm not aware if anybody knows how the 9792510 differs from the 9792506.

But since the 9792510 was unique and so few of them produced, it likely would be of greater value to the right collector.

For the earlier 2 bolt main '67 Ram Air engines, my view is that an XS stamped 9786133 casting might be less valuable than the same casting that came out of a low miles 2 bbl 400 Catalina driven by the proverbial little old lady. In other words, a clean block with a "matching" cast date in my view makes a better "not original motor" than a .060 over XS block.

The other components might add some value. Are the heads 670, 670 restamped to 97, or as cast 997? IIRC, the '67 Ram Air got a specific balancer, I assume the Distributor was also Ram Air specific. If so, they would command some money. Original HO exhaust manifolds are worth something in good condition.

As with everything else, it is worth what a buyer is willing to pay for it. If you patiently wait for the right buyer, it might be worth thousands. If you need to liquidate it quickly, I'd be surprised if you'd get $1000 for a 9786133. If it is a 9792510, I have no idea but I'm not sure you could liquidate one of them for much more than a 9786133. JMO and bear in mind, I have no need for any 400.

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Old 07-24-2020, 03:21 PM
Chief of the 60's Chief of the 60's is offline
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100k for a '67!?!?

  #20  
Old 07-24-2020, 04:56 PM
PurelyGTO68 PurelyGTO68 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chief of the 60's View Post
100k for a '67!?!?
Could be yes.
XS in 67 is Ram Air 4 speed. Top dog GTO in 1967

I think my car would be valued even higher. It is what many would consider as the top dog for the 68 model year. RA II 4 speed convertible. Fairly rare and desirable so that is what usually pushes up the price on these things.

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